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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
ReaktorG2
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
Um alles einfagger zu machen brauchen wir mehrerer Sprachen?
En ik ben maar een Hollander

Ich kann schriftlichen Deutschen oberflächlich begreifen, aber es gibt etwas Ähnlichkeit mit holländischer Sprache.

Wout Blommers wrote:
I'm not a Reactor user, but the picture is puzzling me...
Are you using the G2 Demo as a VST in Reactor, or, are there just some windows layered, or, is it one HOAX using PhotoShop, or am I just a nitwit?

Where are the module folders? How about those cables between the G2 mixers and the scope???

The cables beetween both are fake, but only the cables...
(i just used them to show how the signal flows)

Expect to see more complex wave images than this, in future posts, Reaktor has several limitations (graphical object misalignment, no patch cables in the front panel, limited character font sizes, 4x4 grid, etc...), but aside from these, fortunately, it has a very powerful oscilloscope, with a very high resolution with 384khz bandwidth.
(It was an important decision factor for evaluating whether it was capable to analyse G2 waves or not... [after all, i need a "Plan B" for the possibility of not having access to the G2 dsp source code])
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Well I had been wondering, Bantri doesn't seem to exist in the NI forums at all, neither does reactorG2 if you search for it.


The reason is simple...

I felt the necessity of bringing this project closer to G2 advanced users, because i may need some tips on G2 behavior during the development.

(I had my doubts too, in whether hosting this at NI, or here, or even at some Clavia´s forum [if existed])

(but... I must confess that i have a special affection for electro-music forum and it´s users... [I was always able to find good audio ideas here, and i wished to make it reciprocal])
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alea Jacta Est.
(Just made the requisition using the official Clavia feedback channel)
Let´s see if what i think that will happen, happens...
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In the mean time, doing a few measurements here:
ClkGen
60BPM (48 smp/s)
1/96: 150/2002 smp
1/16: 600/12002 smp
Sync 1: 120/48004 smp
Sync 2: 241/96144 smp
Sync 4: 483/192842 smp
Sync 8: 965/385684 smp
Sync 16: 1951/780336 smp
Sync 32: 3995/1597830 smp
(hmmm... i wonder if the hardware has these fluctuations also...)
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It´s Alive! Alive!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_tVZFZ5PR4
(Only 165 remaining...Smile)
(now i understand the reason for those fluctuations...)


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peterkadar



Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 153
Location: Toronto, Canada
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That tune is damn funky... thanks for the walk down memory lane!
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Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions.


Sad

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
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Neon Sega



Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 78
Location: ru msc

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks very interesting, will it has more busses? ins/outs? new3 modules?
Can you explain Reaktors atomic fails according to G2?
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
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G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow... Astonishing...
(Maybe this is related news... if not... i apologize)
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/07/23/23greenwire-sweden-tries-to-nudge-eu-toward-eco-efficiency-4226.html
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

peterkadar wrote:
Thanks for the walk down memory lane!

Let´s walk together then, further... in the bottomless pit of memory lanes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8GRQHsAVjI
(and even further...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions.

Unbelievable...
(I know a million youtube videos that should be *definitely* more censored than this one, [and probably would work on your side])

Here... try this one... it´s an equivalent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDe5Ckt4joQ
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thx.
Neon Sega wrote:
will it has more busses? ins/outs?

Great idea!!!
(I was originally considering doing only the (1/2)/(3/4) approach... but when passing through the in/out/bus/fx modules i´ll put some steroids in their first version, and will standardize with 16 channels (1/2|3/4|5/6|7/8|9/10|11/12|13/14|15/16) [that is the same number of in´s and out´s in Reaktor].


Neon Sega wrote:
New 3 modules?

First, i´m prioritizing the original modules, with a few improvements in them.

But with some new ones appearing in between, like the half module that is proving to be very useful here to, shrink some original modules that have very few controls inside them.

Afterwards, (or during) there are plans for developing:
-Oscilloscope (working but not finished)
-Logic Analyzer (working but not finished)
-Sampler (to do list)
-Half module (done)
-Square module (in research)
-Recorder (to do list)
-Flag module (to do list)
-24 bit ADC/DAC (to do list)
-32 step sequencer modules (to do list)
-64 step up/down counter (to do list)
-VU module (to do list)
-Big numeric display (to do list)
-Measurement module (to do list)
-Cable multiplexer/demultiplexer
-Cable distributor/organizer
etc...
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
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G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: rg2comp Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Neon Sega wrote:
Can you explain Reaktors atomic fails according to G2?


Uh oh.... tough question... Shocked
(This is such a long list, that probably, at some point, it may be moved to a topic of it´s own, and some new aspects may also appear during the porting)

It´s also of such importance that i´ll tag all related messages with

"rg2comp"

on the subject.
(Reaktor G2 Comparison)

Let me first start with a definition of atomic fail:
"It´s some kind of problem at such a small/deep level, that, on the "user side" of the problem, you can´t obtain a solution, to get the job done, using current technology."
(I´ll also separate every criterion in single messages.)
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: brazil
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G2 patch files: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: rg2comp Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uniform behavior

It´s normal, having to deal with lot´s of wires/modules inside both Reaktor and G2.

Every macro (Reaktor) that is opened, also shows another layer of modules and wires.

The problem in Reaktor is:
You have N layers of modules and wires (and believe me, that N can be very large) but...
in the last... topmost layer... Doh!!!
No wires???? Confused

How people are supposed to learn some modular architecture easily, if... at the top layer, which is the most abstract one, there are no wires to patch up things?
(That´s what i call "uniform behavior", having modules and wires in *all* layers.)

Please don´t use "Herw Modular" as a counter argument for this.
(He did a fantastic job [very complex and laborious] trying to fix this flaw in Reaktor, but that´s what it is, a flaw fix, which can be surely solved in some better way, if... in next versions, is implemented *in* the product, and not counting for some user to solve this one, which is clearly NI´s responsibility.)

I imagine something like creating IN and OUT ports that appear like rounded and square conectors in the topmost layer, and adding an extra wire manager, which would allow using or not, wires in the front panel.

On the other hand, G2 has only one layer (no macros), with wires, which means it deals only with the topmost abstraction level, but when people start to understand high level modules, there is no option to access deeper modules. (Which is a clear situation that shows that porting G2->Reaktor is the only direction possible. [One is recursive, the other is not])
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-Doing some studies in the white noise module...
(interesting...it is not a flat line at whitest position...)
(it seems that in the colorest position it turns to pink noise...)

some more analyisis to be done...


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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
Posts: 149
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: rg2comp Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a good one...
(and is rooted at the deepest level...)

*Bitwise operations*
(in core macros)

SHR and SHL only?

Give me a break! Rolling Eyes
(everybody knows that the cpu has more bitwise operations than those...[since the 80486])

What about ROL, ROR, SAL, SAR, XCHG, BSWAP?
(For a platform that has the shift operations implemented already, it´s just one more hour work to implement these...[and these are as important as shift operations])

(not to mention MMX, and SIMD instructions, to perform operations in paralel, to speed up things...)
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some new questions.... (Plan C)

/Does Anyone Here=DAH/

-DAH has the exact byte contents of any version of the G2 EPROM?
(or all of them maybe...)

-DAH has archived OS update files older than the 1.62?
(i got this one)

-DAH has ever tried to remove the G2 EPROM chip and read it´s contents?
(Sorry for my ignorance but... is that socketed chip an EPROM?)

-DAH knows what´s written under the label, in that G2 chip?
(The only one that is installed in a socket...)

(Feel free to comunicate with me, about those questions (and previous ones) here, or directly by mail or msn.

/bantri
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Neon Sega



Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 78
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While Nord Modulars developed, there were very few reasons to go NIReaktor. With it's limitations in mind. Now things changes. Thanks you tend to change them to the best
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bantri



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-still researching noise...
The Voss-McCartney algorithm is simply fascinating...
http://www.firstpr.com.au/dsp/pink-noise/
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Chet



Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bantri wrote:
-Doing some studies in the white noise module...
(interesting...it is not a flat line at whitest position...)
(it seems that in the colorest position it turns to pink noise...)

some more analyisis to be done...

It acts like a white noise generator followed by a 1-pole lowpass filter and a gain module. Coloring the sound involves reducing the filter cutoff and increasing the output gain.
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buzzr



Joined: Dec 13, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey chet, didn't you make a reaktor patch with patch cords like the G2? Or am I thinking of somebody else?
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Chet



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

buzzr wrote:
Hey chet, didn't you make a reaktor patch with patch cords like the G2? Or am I thinking of somebody else?

That's Herwig Krauss, not me. An example of his work is at http://co.native-instruments.com/forums.html?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=7797.
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bantri



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Chet wrote:
It acts like a white noise generator followed by a 1-pole lowpass filter and a gain module. Coloring the sound involves reducing the filter cutoff and increasing the output gain.

Precisely (2).
Random square[-1,1]>1-pole>Gain

But there is a different way to interpret it... let me think a bit on how...
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Chet wrote:
That's Herwig Krauss

Precisely (3) Shocked
bantri wrote:
Please don´t use "Herw Modular" as a counter argument for this.

(i mentioned it also...)
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bantri



Joined: May 15, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dasz wrote:
I am looking into your reaktor g2 project ... any sound samples soon (or maybe a video)?


The planned date for delivery is:

May/2012
(+- 2 months tolerance approximately...)
(also depending on some specific conditions, like patch cables)

During this period you can expect mostly:
-Images of some graphical details of the interface
-WAV´s
-Communnication logs from other channels
-Images of internal structures
-Videos of the interface (rare... only for some special cases)
-Other related videos/images/graphics

Currently, i could supply some WAV´s for the clock generator, but honestly, those are not much interesting.

(probably the WAV´s will be posted for the white noise case, but not in sequential order because i am researching some other modules in paralel)

(The implementation of the Voss-McCartney algorithm may take some time...)
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