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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » NM Classic (NM1 or G1)
chorus patch / string machine wanted
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wave



Joined: Jul 30, 2008
Posts: 40
Location: germany
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: chorus patch / string machine wanted Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I found this mp3-file here uploaded by davep:

http://electro-music.com/forum/download.php?id=18074
related to http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-35071.html

(specifically from 00:05 to the end of the file)

I`m searching for a patch (G1 or G2) or a complete string machine / synth which can produce something like this or do this to a pad-sound of an other synth. Such a subtile and smoothly chorus-thing - very nice ...

Can anybody help ? My search in the patch-archives was not successfully (until now) - there are too many patches ...

Question to the webmaster: Can I copy / double this posting to the G2-forum ? Is this allowed ?
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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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Location: Oakland, CA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Wave,

Here's a G2 version. This approximates the sound of Rob Hordijk's excellent dual phaser module that is heard in the mp3. It's not as good as the real thing, but it's as close as I could get. I added a pair of chorus modules and some reverb to simulate some of the processing that is also heard in the mp3.

To use this example in your own complete patch, just copy and paste all of the BLUE modules into the lower FX area of your patch and add a "FX-IN" module to route your patch to the effects section.

You could do the same thing with the NM1. For the NM1, you don't need the two 2-channel mixers directly below the Phase Filter modules because the phaser mix function is built into the NM1 phaser module.


Stereo Phaser idea.pch2
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 Filename:  Stereo Phaser idea.pch2
 Filesize:  2.23 KB
 Downloaded:  792 Time(s)


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Dave Peck
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wave



Joined: Jul 30, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shocked ... I really not expected a reply from the master himself Very Happy ...

Hi Dave,

thanks for the effort - yes, this patch gives the smooth, non static sound I was looking for !

I discovered one thing (new for me) in this patch:

The mixer after the phaserfilter >>> I understand this as the "phaser dry/wet-mixer" - right ? But you have inverted one of the two signals (in both audio channels, L & R) >>> inverted to get more of "phase cancellation" ?

Also nice: the little pad-synth on the left left side - I added a slow ADSR to play the pad - but I don`t understand why I can`t get more than four voice ?!? (unexpanded G2-Engine, but there is enough of cycl&mem) ...
Is this limitation related by the four Osc used in this patch (OscD1 to OscD4) ? So many things to find out and learn ...


PS: Over 100 views and 20 downloads until now - but no reply except yours Confused ...

I will try to convert your patch for the G1 (not without repect to you Smile ) and give it back to the forum ...
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wave



Joined: Jul 30, 2008
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Location: germany
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

... promised and done Very Happy (proud to present my first upload on electro-music.com) ...

This is my conversion (G2 > G1) of the >>> stereo_phaser_idea_143.pch2 <<< (original created by Dave Peck).

I add / edit:
-"source mix" - so you can easy switch between the external input of the G1 and the little testsynth inside the patch
-"vocal filter" - after conversion the sound of the G1 were not so smooth - unhappily more static (direct compared) - so I searched for a possibilty to add a "vocalish"-element ...
-some more osc-detune was necessary


I hope I`ve done everything right ... corrections, comments and edits welcome ...


stereo_phaser_converted.pch
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 Filename:  stereo_phaser_converted.pch
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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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G2 patch files: 73

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Wave,

Glad you liked the patch! I checked out your variation and I have some answers to the questions. Yes, the inverting that is done in the post-phase filter mixer is done to enhance the phasing sound, but - very important - this works best when the phase filter's feedback control is set to a negative value also. With phase shifters, negative feedback and negative mix gives a distinct sound that I really like. When the feedback control is set to some positive value, I prefer no inverting in the mix (positive feedback with positive mix). But you should try out the various combinations of positive & negative feedback with positive & negative mix to see what you prefer. They are all a little different. (NOTE - you can only do these different pos & neg settings with the G2's phase filter & external mixer - you can't do them with the NM1 because the mixing is done inside the NM1's phaser module... or maybe you CAN do it on the NM1 but it will take some additional tricky cancelling and inverting circuits....anyway, it's not as simple to try the various options on the NM1 as it is on the G2).

Ah, I like the external audio input. I usually add switch modules to select external audio or internal synth, but I see you used mixers instead, which would let you process BOTH internal and external sounds at the same time. Nice.

I'm not sure why you are only getting four voices. Maybe you did not move the phase shifter stuff to the FX area? If you leave all of that in the voice area (upper screen) you will be creating dual phasers for each voice, which will eat up a lot of DSP. If it goes over 50% it will use up one DSP per voice, which will greatly limit the polyphony.

I am attaching two new versions of the patch (G2 and NM1) that moves the phasers to the FX area and adds a few extra features to the simple pad synth. Mostly a simple filter and two EGs with velocity control. Also note the filter feedback patch, where the filter's output goes back to the osc mixer. You have to be careful with the mixer levels so you don't overload the filter, but this can give you a much 'bigger' sound with more low end harmonics.

There is also a panner control just before the phasers to let you set the amount of dry / FX mix.

Also note - when using dual Chorus modules like this, it is important to set them to different rates (if they are the same rate, there's no point having two of them).

Note that in the NM1 version, I shut off the phaser's internal LFOs and used four external slave LFOs for dual rate and dual spread controls, and I added a MASTER OSC for controlling the rates of all four LFOs. I found that the MASTER OSC works great for controlling groups of LFOs that are all running at different rates. Just remember to shut of the MASTER OSC's KYBD control button. I did somethign similar in the G2 version (but oops! I see I forgot to assign these to panel controls).

I deleted the vocal filters and changed the phaser's feedback controls to a positive value. This change, and some tweaks to the spread settings, brings back a lot of the vocal effect that is heard in the G2 version.

The new NM1 version gets 8 voices in an expanded NM1 and the new G2 version gets a whopping 32 voices in an expanded G2, so you should still get quite a lot of vocies in an unexpanded G2.

Enjoy!


stereo_phaser_converted2.pch
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stereo_phaser_idea2.pch2
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Dave Peck
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wave



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"very important - this works best ... is set to a negative value ..."

>>> ah ! thats a god piece of advice ! I`ve tryed out pos and neg Values in the G1 - but I haven`t found an easy way to invert the signal - now I know why ... in the end the positive values sounds closer (without having an inverted signal) - but not close enough, so I`ve tried out the vocal filter ...

Yes - I forgot to copy the phaser to the fx-area >>> now the unexpanded G1 give out seven voices - thats enough for this kind of chords ...
(btw: the new G2-version gets 17 voices in my unexpanded engine - more than enough and space to add more features *g* ...) ... still looking for an expanded G2 or a G2x ...

Ah - the feedback-filter-trick - I learnd this trick here in this forum some time ago - useful again and again ... and a very elegant dry/wet-mixer (you`ve used a pan-module - I thought the X-Fade-Module is for that ?!?) ...

You`ve replaced the internal LFO of the G1-phaser to control all LFOs with an master - yes, thats a god idea - is this the only reason or there are also other motives ?

Its a very luxurious situation to have both machines - I was wondering about the differences between the G1 and the G2 after creating a identical patch ... I`ve heard it after connecting both to my mixer and switch between them ...

More complex is the way you choosed to create your "chroma templates" ... unfortunately I can`t open the patch-files - are they created with an older editor version ?

My absolut favourite (using the internal synth) is your "new" version ... the others also works nice with different "audio in-material" ...
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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wave wrote:


You`ve replaced the internal LFO of the G1-phaser to control all LFOs with an master - yes, thats a god idea - is this the only reason or there are also other motives ?

More complex is the way you choosed to create your "chroma templates" ... unfortunately I can`t open the patch-files - are they created with an older editor version ?



Hi Wave,

Using the Master Osc is just easy, mostly. You could also assign all of these LFOs to a morph group, but I think using the Master Osc is easier because you don't have to carefully set all of the MIN and MAX range values, you just connect the master osc and whatever you do to the master osc rate will cause all LFOs to react in the correct amount of rate change. And there are some other benefits to using the Master osc. For example, if you have a patch with lots of LFOs in the Poly area (upper screen) you can add some keyboard tracking to the master osc (either 100% using the KBD button or some smaller amount by connecting the NOTE out of the KYBD module to the master osc's variable MOD inputs) so all LFOs increase & decrease their rates in a musically nice way as you play up & down the keyboard, or you could use a footpedal to control the master osc's rate, etc.

Regarding the Chroma patches, they were created using latest NM1 version. Where are you getting them from? Maybe I can take a look and see what's wrong. Or send me your email and I can just send you the set of patches directly.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

.....OK, I found the old thread with the Chroma template patches and you're right, they don't open after download. Other NM1 patches in other threads are OK (including other patches from me).

I did notice that all NM1 patches that do open OK get a three digit number added at the end of the file name, just before the .pch extension. This number isn't visible when looking at the patch name here in the forum, but you see it when downloading the patch. But these Chroma patches don't show this extra three digit number.....

Jan? Are you there? Any ideas?

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
Jan? Are you there? Any ideas?


The three digit numbers were added to make unique file names, maybe you posted your files before that mechanism was installed ... do you have a link for me? so I can check the patches ... not sure where to look now ...

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davep



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
davep wrote:
Jan? Are you there? Any ideas?


The three digit numbers were added to make unique file names, maybe you posted your files before that mechanism was installed ... do you have a link for me? so I can check the patches ... not sure where to look now ...


Hi Jan!

The thread is here:

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-4713.html


... I see that someone else had a problem with these attachements too (last post in the thread). If the files really are bad, let me know & I can re-send them.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
If the files really are bad, let me know & I can re-send them.


Such seems to be the case, so if you could resend that'd be great, if not ... they probably are fixable .. looking like ...

Code:

[Header]

Version=Nord Modular patch 3.0

0 127 0 127 2 0 0 1 600 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

[/Header]

[ModuleDump]

1

2 4 2 29

3 97 0 17

4 11 0 14

5 57 0 5

8 49 1 4

9 30 1 0



... it seems to be the double linefeed problem we've been having in the past as well ... I made a tool for it then BTW to fix such patches : http://www.iaf.nl/Users/BlueHell/html/software/software-un.htm

I did not test it for any of these patches and I do not know if the program will still run on current computers, but this is what I've used in the past to fix problems with NM patches that traveled over the web in weird ways.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, I forgot to mention, it is possible to edit your original message and replace attachments by a new version ... there is some help for that even : http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-20016.html Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A - HA ! You computer guys are so clever!

OK, I have now replaced all of the Chroma patches in that Chroma thread and I added a new post to the thread with one more new finished Chroma patch. I haven't re-checked all of the attachments, but the first one now downloads and opens correctly.

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wave



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dave,

thats really funny Smile - I saw the three digits as I download your chorus patches ... and I thought "oh ! Dave uses a special way to sort and categorize his patches" - something like a version number or so Very Happy ...

Thank you for all the effort and your the tips - I will try out the chroma patches this weekend ...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:
OK, I have now replaced all of the Chroma patches in that Chroma thread and I added a new post to the thread with one more new finished Chroma patch.


Thanks Dave!

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