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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Step sequencer patch...
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puRe



Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Step sequencer patch... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Potential G2 user here...

A question for all you G2 wizards:
would it be possible to make a 8/16/32 step sequencer with a true skip function (a la moog 960)...

if so, any patch examples?
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egw



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Explain how you want the skip function to work.
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puRe



Joined: Oct 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

egw wrote:
Explain how you want the skip function to work.


let's saw we have 4 steps...when all steps are normal (ie. none are set to skip), it would go:
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

if we set steps 2 and 4 to skip the sequence would go:
1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3

so there would be no pauses/mutes where the (now skipped) steps were...
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egw



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, I think it's possible, but it may be a bit complicated.
I'll have to give it a shot when I get some time.
Maybe someone else has it figured out already.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This seems to do the trick.

Jan.

Edited : This is fun ... automated the skipping process & funned up the synth a bit. See attachment.


skip.jpg
 Description:
skipping sequencer example
 Filesize:  39.08 KB
 Viewed:  17410 Time(s)

skip.jpg



04-016-006-c.pch2
 Description:

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 Filename:  04-016-006-c.pch2
 Filesize:  2.13 KB
 Downloaded:  1084 Time(s)

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mosc
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You did it, Jan. cheers

I used to play the 960 in my younger days. The skip switches were very cool, but so was the jump push buttons. When you push them, the sequencer would jump to that stage. Lots of fun to play interactively.

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puRe



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks a lot, Jan! Very Happy
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egw



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't understand why the fast osc works.
If both inputs are zero, then XOR should return a zero.
So how does it ever get out of the initial state?
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Rob



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
This seems to do the trick.

Jan.


Beefed it up a bit so it works with the ClkGen.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Also did one fundamental change, the idea being that when one step is skipped only one extra pulse should be generated. So, two pulse for one skip, three pulses for two skips, etc. I don't think that works very well with switching between a fast and a slow clock. So here the gate pulse is slightly delayed, ANDed with the seq pulse and XORed with the original clockpulse. Which seems to more reliably skip one, two or more steps in a row.


MoogSeqWithSkip.pch2
 Description:
Example for skipping steps on a sequencer module

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 Filename:  MoogSeqWithSkip.pch2
 Filesize:  2.15 KB
 Downloaded:  851 Time(s)

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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:14 am    Post subject: step seq Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice Jan,
i combined it with an other seq patch of mine, so i came up with this.
Load a simple drum seq into an other slot. And it's so nice to play with the phase etc.


StepSeq C.pch2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  StepSeq C.pch2
 Filesize:  3.51 KB
 Downloaded:  839 Time(s)


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

egw wrote:
I don't understand why the fast osc works.
If both inputs are zero, then XOR should return a zero.
So how does it ever get out of the initial state?


Ypu are right, it can't work.

I started with an inverter and then thought I needed some more logic and so dropped in a logic module. Next thing was that I thought an xor could invert for me and so I could drop the invertor. And of course it can invert but it only does so when it's other input is a one. I ended up not needing additional logic, but left in the xor, and the error.

It did the trick, but now I really don't know why it works :-)

BTW, I like Rob's solution better.

Jan.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
It did the trick, but now I really don't know why it works Smile

BTW, I like Rob's solution better.

Jan.


Well, I wondered why the S&H was late. Now I nailed it down to this: when an inverter is connected between the gate output on the seq and the seq is set to trig mode the trigs plus inverter work as a high frequency generator racing through the steps. Then another clock can simply be combined with a NOR function instead of the inverter. Using a XOR does weird things. It all can be monitored by connecting the seq clock to an audio output.
An extra S&H to prevent the 'fast' steps (the skipping takes a little time) to be output does not work straightforward, the S&H is just always one step late. Beats me how to solve that one.

Jan, in your patch it is the switch that actually interrupts the clock signal and so works the same as an inverting function. It doesn't even need the other input.

My guess is that it all boils down to this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

By not using the S&H it works like one would expect. The thingy can be speeded up to minimize the skip glitches by connecting any red output to one of the inputs of the unused gate on the gate module. Though that eats dsp. A glide module on the output of the seq and set to a couple of millisecs might be a better idea. I suppose it depends a bit on how fast the attack and decay times of the envelope would be. Only on superfast blips the glitches might possibly be audible.


SeqStepTest.pch2
 Description:
Testpatch to see how steps can be skipped on a seq module

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 Filename:  SeqStepTest.pch2
 Filesize:  1.31 KB
 Downloaded:  795 Time(s)

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob wrote:

Jan, in your patch it is the switch that actually interrupts the clock signal and so works the same as an inverting function. It doesn't even need the other input.


Ok, that makes sense - not quite what I intended though ...

I had some glitches as well in the original that's why in the patch I inserted a sample & hold - had not noticed it to be late, but that's nothing strange for a free running beat clock of course - it only matters when using a truely synced clock where some beat has to be 'first'.

A glide set to some 2 .. 3 ms seems to eliminate the glitches without touching the steps too much. That is to up to about 20 Hz (1200 BPM), it's kind of hard to decide what is contributed by glitching and what is contributed by the staircased nature of the sequencer output itself - especially when the beat goes audio rate (lets say above 20 Hz or so).

I tried delaying the seqencer clock a bit (with a S&H), but that doesn't help much, it makes things worse even as the glitches get longer.

Making the thing go at audio rates more than doubles the DSP %, no option I agree ...

Interesting problem !

Jan.
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puRe



Joined: Oct 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another question...could anyone post an example of step sequencer with speeding up on certain steps (like on ARP sequencer where you can patch one of the Gate busses to Clock FM and use it to speed the sequence at steps where that gate bus triggered)...

edit:
will post video example...
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The CLK module does not have a FM input so just use one of the other LFO modules like in this example. The trigger mode should be G not T as the latter is only high for a very short time.


fmSeq.pch2
 Description:
sample modulated tempo sequencer

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 Filename:  fmSeq.pch2
 Filesize:  1.26 KB
 Downloaded:  862 Time(s)

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puRe



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, I reckon that should do it...
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Rob



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

puRe wrote:
Another question...could anyone post an example of step sequencer with speeding up on certain steps...


Here is an example with both skips and four possible note lengths. Note lengths is not that difficult, you just need to generate a couple of different speed pulses and then use a mux to select one of them on each step. Note that the XMUX has the advantage that the control range is 0 to 64 units for the eight switch positions. Of course the x-fade should be off when selecting pulses.

And no, Mosc! It cannot run backwards! Laughing


SkipsAndTimesSeqExample.pch2
 Description:
Patch that shows how a sequencer can have different length steps plus how to skip certain steps. Steptime and skip control is by the yellow sequencer module.

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 Filename:  SkipsAndTimesSeqExample.pch2
 Filesize:  2.31 KB
 Downloaded:  842 Time(s)

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puRe



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob wrote:
Here is an example with both skips and four possible note lengths.


You read my mind!!! Very Happy

Thanks!
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob wrote:
And no, Mosc! It cannot run backwards! Laughing


True, it won't run backwards, but if we are looking for something to do what a Moog 960 sequencer did, then that's not a problem because it couldn't run backwards either.

The 960 had another very nice feature for interactive performace, the jump button. These were little push buttons that would force the sequencer to any stage; sorta like 8 individual asychronous reset switches.

I think that to get a really dream sequencer, the G2 would need a binary up/down counter with asynchronous preset module. Then, with the D/A and the Control Sequencer modules, you could build a 960 type device which could go forwards and backwards.

Back to the 960, there was an option for a sequencer switch module, which was basically a multiplexer. This was very powerful. The 960 had I think tree rows of knobs. With the sequencer switch, you could select the rows with voltage control. This would be no problem with the G2 becuase you could run several sequencer modules in parallel and use the G2's switch and mux modules to your hearts delight. So, what we need is only the binary up/down counter with asychronous preset - then there would be global happiness and world peace. Very Happy

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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
..... then there would be global happiness and world peace. Very Happy


I say Howard must have been a fashion model Wink
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egw



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can you explain what you mean by asynchronous preset?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A counter has some internal state, it's current count. Presetting a counter sets the state to be equal to the value you apply with the preset value (which for a binary counter is a couple of lines carrying a binary value).

This presetting can be done either clock-synchroneous or clock-asynchroneous. When synced the value will be taken on the next active edge of the clock, async means: set it immediately. For a synced preset it would be nice to store the preset value temporary into a preset register, so it can be taken away fom the input and still be available on the next active clock edge.

I was wondering though whether the clock should be reset as well on an async counter update - probably not I guess to keep the beat unbroken.

For a G2 implementation there is no real need to make the mechanism truely binary as one single signal line can have multiple values. When required a binary value can always be made using an AD converter module.

For a sequencer implementation iit would be nice to have as many presets available as there are sequencer steps. The presets could be jammed in on a button press.

Jan.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is another sequencer, it can go forwards and backwards. It also has skips and it has presets and a reset as well.

The resets and presets are not asynchroneous, that was too hard.

And there is a little flaw ... for the listener to discover. But it is as close as I could get tonight & I really don't see why it has this flaw, but still it has.

So eternal love & piece, or what was it. is not established yet I'm afraid ...

I didn't assign any knobs or buttons, doing so might make it more usefull for G2-key owners.

Jan.


udsereseq-6.pch2
 Description:
Up down preset reset and skip sequencer example

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 Filename:  udsereseq-6.pch2
 Filesize:  4.21 KB
 Downloaded:  985 Time(s)

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And a variation, with time control over steps as well, in a weird way a bit - but tweakable.

I think it starts to work a bit like the David Vorhaus magic sequencer machine. One should play it interactively to make it work.

Buttons to press are :

- direction/up-down
- presets-1..16 (the asociated knobs are not meant to be turned)

Changing first- and last-val is interesting.

Pressing the random buttons on the sequecers, fwd- and rev-stp values and click reset every now & then.

For some examples try the variations.

Keyboard owners shoulf try to assign some knobs, I thinks it's fun to do so, should be able to produce instant White Noise with some tweaking:-)

Edit : and the skips on the skip-durat sequencer and the speed and speed modulation of course.

Edit again : replaced the patch by a newer version with more 'normal' timing.

Jan.


udsereseq-8.pch2
 Description:
Sequencer up/down, skips, jumps, reset and step speeds - various Vorhaus possibilities in this. Saved with some variations to try.

Download
 Filename:  udsereseq-8.pch2
 Filesize:  4.67 KB
 Downloaded:  1047 Time(s)


Last edited by Blue Hell on Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cannonball



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rob's final version of Jan's original patch works great with a bit ot tweaking. This is much, much simpler and better than my original attempt at at a similar patch which I posted as a performance a few months back. I find it difficult to understand what some of the logic modules are supposed to do - you guys obviously know what you're doing!

Thanks guys.

Dave
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