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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Rob Hordijk DIY Designs
Benjolin/Zeitgeist questions
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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
Very cool case Mike.


I was there when he bought it for a very cool price Wink

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's gratifying to see things become realisations of potential.
I believe that the case was ultimately destined to be what it has now been reborn as.

You have done it justice.
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OmbientMike



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Photo's of builds Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electri-fire wrote:
That's beautiful, Mike.

I'm sort of disorganised, so to not get lost I like to seperate topics. I opened a new one here to present your builds.


http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-38063.html

.


Feel free to move my post if you like...good idea making the new topic.

Mike Hunter
Listen to my weekly FM radio show called Music With Space on 103.3FM in NJ or on the web at www.wprb.com each week at 1am EST to 4am EST
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OmbientMike



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject: Did it come from you? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
Very cool case Mike.


Thanks!

I'm trying to remember the guys name who sold this clock case...was it you!?

It was someone who also built a Benjolin at EM09

Mike Hunter
Listen to my weekly FM radio show called Music With Space on 103.3FM in NJ or on the web at www.wprb.com each week at 1am EST to 4am EST
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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, it was I.

I really ejoyed chatting with you at the workshop.
Your set later was wicked!
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject: Zeitgeist - kaput Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi! So I built a Zeitgest at E-m, and it worked for a week or 2. My friend & I were fooling with it and it stopped working. The LED grew faint, flickered & died. After that it wouldn't turn on.

So... I opened it up to see if there were any loose connections. Couldn't find any. My son & I are going to check the components with a multimeter but I have a feeling that one of the chips must have failed. Or else why would it stop working while it was on and we were twirling dials? Is it possible that it was a defective chip that got a voltage overload from the combined input of a few of the pots?

I wonder how easy it would be to replace a chip.

I wish I could fix this, because it was my first real electronic project (aside from my LED lamps) and mostly a learning experience. Unfortunately when projects work for a week & then fail, it is a dismotivation to work on more projects. Crying or Very sad

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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Zeitgeist - kaput Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:
Hi! So I built a Zeitgest at E-m, and it worked for a week or 2. My friend & I were fooling with it and it stopped working. The LED grew faint, flickered & died. After that it wouldn't turn on.


OK, you won't believe this, but I touched a fresh LED to the leads on the burnt out one.... and the circuit worked!!!!!

I was afraid a chip had failed. But maybe the burnt out LED was the whole problem? It prevented the current from going thru the circuit.... ?

I would like to know why the LED burned out. I am putting a new LED in, but the only kind I have is an ultra bright PINK Cool . I am going to also include a resistor (470 Ohms) which came with the package of LEDs. I hope that would prevent it from burning out.

Wow, I'd be really excited if this would fix my Zeitgest. Very Happy

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wondered about this when looking at the schematic. There is no current limiting resistor for the LED. What has likely happened is that your LED lived the fife of too much brilliance and therefore died too young. Brightness of LED's is a function of the current running through them NOT the voltage they run on. Hopefully, your noisitron will once again spring to a much better life.
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
I wondered about this when looking at the schematic. There is no current limiting resistor for the LED. What has likely happened is that your LED lived the fife of too much brilliance and therefore died too young. Brightness of LED's is a function of the current running through them NOT the voltage they run on. Hopefully, your noisitron will once again spring to a much better life.


OK so I used a bright pink LED which is a higher mAmp rating than the standard green one. Maybe 20 or 30. I put a 400 something ohm resistor with it. When I turned the gadget on.... it did work...'sort of'... but it produced a much higher pitch, more like a squeal than the 'static' it used to make.

So... I don't know whether it is working 'properly', since it always made the kind of static most musicians try NOT to get!

I wonder if the brighter LED affected the sound?

Oh... are you supposed to be able to play your keyboard thru this, because mine doesn't. (although that could be because I had to turn my amp way down because the Zeitgeist sounded so awful, and there is NO volume control... I thought the Input level was supposed to control this. Confused

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mine behaves much the same way (without the LED problem yet). It will not process incomming audio. Something in the circuit is producing a whitish noise which is being processed by the PT-2399 chip. I get a fair assortment of spacey motorish sounds from it as is. I was going to try to fix it, but I'm thinking of leaving it as is and building myself other circuits around this chip.

Laura, try a few things. Firts try the Pink LED without the resistor and see how it sounds. Then try a regular 1N914 diode in place of the LED, again checking for sound. If the sound is OK with the diode alone, you may need to run your power LED parallel to the circuit instead of serially as it is now.
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:

Laura, try a few things. Firts try the Pink LED without the resistor and see how it sounds. Then try a regular 1N914 diode in place of the LED, again checking for sound. If the sound is OK with the diode alone, you may need to run your power LED parallel to the circuit instead of serially as it is now.


Thanks. I thought the only purpose of the LED was to show if the device was ON or OFF. (it was actually a bi-color LED. It turned yellow when I plugged a jack into it. Or was that just a malfunction...?)

If it was on a breadboard I'd probably experiment more....but all that desoldering is kind of time-intensive... maybe I'll wait & see if anyone else tries a fix & what results they get.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Roger that. For what it's worth, I have desoldered bith IC's on my PCB and put in sockets. I have put in new chips in both positions with no change in behavior. For the Op Amp IC, I used an LM 324 per Rob's recomendation.

With as many people as there are experiancing similar problems, I wonder if some part of the design is on the edge of proper operation, and that due to variances in component values we have some that don't want to operate correctly?

Any Ideas about why we would have white noise at the PT2399 input?

Why would the external input not work?

Rob?
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laura woodswalker



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Danno Gee Ray wrote:
Roger that. For what it's worth, I have desoldered bith IC's on my PCB and put in sockets. I have put in new chips in both positions with no change in behavior. For the Op Amp IC, I used an LM 324 per Rob's recomendation.

With as many people as there are experiancing similar problems, I wonder if some part of the design is on the edge of proper operation, and that due to variances in component values we have some that don't want to operate correctly?

Any Ideas about why we would have white noise at the PT2399 input?

Why would the external input not work?

Rob?


I tried my Zeitgeist again. It is really not picking up any sound from the keyboard... it is just oversaturating with teeth-grating noise. Not the Nice kind of noise.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject: Zeitgeist repair Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Mike!

I made a Zeitgeist at EM 2009 and it is messed up. It buzzes all the time and people on this forum tell me there is a design flaw that needs to be corrected.

I know how to solder an LED but I don't have advanced testing equipment to troubleshoot capacitors, etc.

I think you are the person I saw at the recent NJ festival...you had your awesome Steampunk rig there. You said if I had brought my Zeitgeist you might be able to tweak it & help fix it.

Are you going to be at Pocono Skies or something else local, and will there be a DIY/circuit bend workshop where I could get some help with the Zeitgeist?

I'd really love to get it working again, it sounded so awesome!!!

laura

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Zeitgeist repair Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:
Hi Mike!

I made a Zeitgeist at EM 2009 and it is messed up. It buzzes all the time and people on this forum tell me there is a design flaw that needs to be corrected.


Hi folks,
I'm coming to E/M. Should I bring my Zeitgeist? I need the help of someone who can fix it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Laura, good to see you'll be coming to EM2010.

Sure, bring your Zeitgeist. I'll bring mine so we can compare and hopefully find out what's wrong with yours. I wonder if Rob and Joker will be coming too.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electri-fire wrote:
Hi Laura, good to see you'll be coming to EM2010.

Sure, bring your Zeitgeist. I'll bring mine so we can compare and hopefully find out what's wrong with yours. I wonder if Rob and Joker will be coming too.


Awesome! Instead of talking to Aliens like it should have been, it is just gathering dust. Rolling Eyes

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Danno Gee Ray



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please remember to post your findings. I have a feeling that there may be more than a couple people with similar issues.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Zeitgeist knob labels
Subject description: Benjolin Knob Labels
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OmbientMike wrote:


Here is a picture of a completed Benjolin. It appears to be the same unit


sweet !
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Zeitgeist Repair
Subject description: dealing with the LED
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laura woodswalker wrote:
I thought the only purpose of the LED was to show if the device was ON or OFF. (it was actually a bi-color LED. It turned yellow when I plugged a jack into it. Or was that just a malfunction...?)


It is a green LED, but it's burning yellow is caused by too much current passing. So eventually it burns through, as did mine as well. I just removed and bypassed it. That works and is safe as there is a voltage regulator after the LED.

Another option is to remove the LED and insert a switch there for power on-off.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:35 am    Post subject: Dealing with the switches. Delay off. Delay-direct balance Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Imagine the board component side up, pots at the top.

There's a 3-leg header for a switch that selects between the LDR/ external sensor input, and the MOD depth pot in ("pot 3").

I don't use the LDR-Sensor but do want the option to insert external MOD signals, so I eliminated the switch I soldered the two leftmost legs of the header together. To have the LDR-Sensor connection hardwired, connect the two rightmost headerpins.
------------------------------------------------

Selecting delay volume and delay on-off.

This is where the design is strange an counter intuitive to me. Pot 1 sends the input into the circuit. It can be used to "fade" sound into the delay, and I like to do that. But then, no direct sound can reach the output. I'd prefer the "direct in" to be present at the output all the time, and send sound into the delay with pot 1 as it works now.

And then have a balance pot on the output between the direct input and the delay signal.

I have a feeling the other header (slightly above right of center) was meant to (sort of) do that, but we were provided with a switch instead of a potmeter.

Now, with the switch (center lug is the output) we can switch between "all delay" or the "direct" sound but after it passed pot 1.
The more traditional way would be a potmeter at this header, and instead of the input after pot1 have the direct input there. The result should be a Direct-Delay balance knob. (not tried this yet, I will update when it's done)
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PickNick



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi there!
i started to built the zeitgeist.
benjolin is done...works great!
my question is what part is 1702R/U1?
kind of regulator... but i didn't find the right spec.
it is possible to replace with 78L05?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

laura woodswalker wrote:
electri-fire wrote:
Hi Laura, good to see you'll be coming to EM2010.

Sure, bring your Zeitgeist. I'll bring mine so we can compare and hopefully find out what's wrong with yours. I wonder if Rob and Joker will be coming too.


Awesome! Instead of talking to Aliens like it should have been, it is just gathering dust. Rolling Eyes


I don't know where my zeitgeist is anymore. I learned something from this project: not to do anymore electronics projects! Crying or Very sad

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rosch



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey PickNick,
i haven't built this (yet).
i just had a look for that part and it appears to be a series of 200mA regulators from Microchip if i'm not mistaken.
but couldn't find out for which voltage as there hasn't beena Zeitgeist bom posted.

but from a quote in this thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-38077.html
i would assume that a 78L05 should work:
Quote:
The Zeitgeist has a +5V regulator that accepts a power supply voltage of +6V to +20V. It can easily share the +12V to +15V that also powers the Benjolin. The Zeitgeist uses roughly between 20mA and 40mA of current, depending on the delaytime.


it's also the only regulator in this schematic:
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/zeitgeistschematic_125.pdf
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bartlebooth



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have an unbuilt zeitgeist leftover from last year's workshop and also a question: i see some talk on a few threads about a problem in the design and also a few potential fixes (bypass the LED, swap out an opamp).. can someone please summarize the problem and if there is a recommended fix for it?

thanks alot!
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