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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:01 am Post subject:
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Les! This next show is wonderful news! I really appreciate this!
I went into my soon to be getting out of electrical components electronic store today and bought what CMOS 4000 series IC's they had left... Need to get some others though... but getting equipped!
Cant wait for your show!
... suddenly I have a reason to live again!
-StEVe- |
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MusicMan11712
Joined: Aug 08, 2009 Posts: 1082 Location: Out scouting . . .
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:10 am Post subject:
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Excellent idea, Les! Maybe I will pick up a breadboard and parts for my 12 yo who seems to be getting interested in circuits.
--Steve |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24075 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:21 am Post subject:
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Inventor wrote: | It's really freaky man! |
Turn on the machines! _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject:
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hi all!
Built the above schematic on a breadboard... stayed up all night with Inventors help and now have the most incredible sounds filling my home! Thanks Les! Highly recommend this to anyone!
DO NOT MISS THE NEXT SHOW!
Soon as I can stop being mesmerized by this device, or the 9V battery runs out, I'll get around to sleeping then recording some sounds... and posting!
Once again, thanks! |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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droffset
Joined: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 515 Location: London area
Audio files: 2
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5581 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:49 am Post subject:
lunettatics |
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hey les, looking forward to this show.
You probably already thought about it but you could do a whole series, or at least a couple of shows.
Discovering different chips on each show and posting the schematics/pin-layouts beforehand on the forum (like you did),
so listeners can build and experiment along wih the show.
Maybe you can even get some results back that you can play during the show.
(btw,.. is that big thingy on your breadboard a speaker ?) |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:28 am Post subject:
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Hello again Inventor!
Just as I was typing this out I noticed PHOBos has mentioned much of what I was... I too was thinking a section on your Inventions show where you talk about a particular IC would be really good. I was chatting to Psyingo earlier about Lunetta's and he was telling me all about the 4011 NAND gate. Perhaps a whole show about one IC might be stretching it too far, but a small section on a particular IC; its history, construction, overview of pins, applications etc would be really useful! And there are so many IC's out there! This could be a valuable resource...
And to anyone out there who hasn't done so already: go to the radio archives and give Les a listen! Well worth the visit!
By the way Les, your breadboards look immaculate! Very neat! Really curious about this Boolean Sequencer you have mentioned before...
-StevE- Last edited by -minus- on Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:11 am Post subject:
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Thanks for the kind words guys. Yes I'm thinking of doing a series of shows on this topic. There will be at least one or two and hopefully more. I'll talk about the chips used and tell you how to get your own datasheets from the web. Yes the big thingy is a flat high-impedance piezo speaker (DigiKey part P11124-ND) that I bought years ago. The next show is a week from tommorrow so there's time to buy parts if you're so inclined...
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject:
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I just got done drawing up a schematic and generating a parts list for the Boolean Sequencer Lunetta, which is project #2. I may cover it some in the first show, I dunno. It is actually two separate Boolean Sequencer Lunettas running from a common 555 clock. I like the second one better but they are both good.
Les
Description: |
Bill of Materials for Boolean Sequencer Lunetta |
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BooleanSequencerLunettaBOM.txt |
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1.77 KB |
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Description: |
Schematic for Boolean Sequencer Lunetta |
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BooleanSequencerLunettaSCH.pdf |
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28.25 KB |
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1995 Time(s) |
_________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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droffset
Joined: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 515 Location: London area
Audio files: 2
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject:
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Droffset, if you use 4093's then you can gate them with the AND gate outputs, leaving all four inputs of the AND gates for connection to the counter bits. It's just a different approach. I did it this way because I had no 4093's.
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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droffset
Joined: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 515 Location: London area
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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electri-fire
Joined: Jul 26, 2006 Posts: 536 Location: Dordrecht NL
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 4
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject:
Summary and remarks on "4-oscillator-lunetta" show |
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Bill "State_Machine" came into the chat during the show 5 minutes before the ending.
Well, I missed it completely, tuning into Bill's soldering musicians radio stream half way.
Summary of information, unfinished.
On Inventor's breadboard (from Digikey.com)
1M thumbwheel pots, a value often used in Lunetta's , especially with 40106 oscillators, costing $1.25 , something like that.
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Inventor's Breadboard Speaker
The flat speaker: ("pricy but good quality") is from digikey.com, where Les buys most of his parts.
It's a piezo speaker with Frequency Range 150Hz ~ 100kHz. It's high impedance, meaning it can be driven directly from an opamp, or even directly from the CMOS
outputs.
After soldering two little pieces of 24G wire it's great for breadboarding says Les, and during the show it was miked and the sound directly sent to the stream.
I noticed no difference to my 4-osc-lunetta heard directly through headphones.
Digikey Part number P11124-ND
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=p11124-nd
Manufacturer (panasonic ) Part Number: WM-R57A
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On the demo previously posted the 4-osc-lunetta was processed by e-ChucK, audio software Inventor actively promotes/supports at one of the EM forums.
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Next the show discusses reading the 4-osc-lunetta schematic:
The four triangles with the little circle on the right side are the invertors.
Each invertor (oscillator) has a capacitor to ground at the input, and a potentiometer between it's output and input ( the "feedback loop").
There's a fixed resistor in the feedback path in series with the pot. Pitch rises with lower resistance. And higher resistance lowers pitch .
The 4.7K resistor thus limits the upper range, preventing the pitch to reach inaudible frequencies. (adjust to taste)
These extremely simple oscillators are used quite a lot in Lunetta's.
Next: the Voltage Followers.
An opamp with the signal to it's positive input and it's output connected to the negative input is voltage follower. Two of those are at the upper right of the
schematic.
The voltage followers are buffers used to reliably drive all kind of external amps , line in's etc, protecting your lunetta circuit and your external equipment from
harm or signal degradation.
The Square Wave
Digital / binary logic chips like CMOS produce squarewaves. A squarewave alternates between ground and the supply voltage. Inventor lets you hear the topmost
oscillator (connected to the top voltage follower) to demo a square wave, the most common waveform generated by Lunetta's.
The R/2R ladder
This network of resistors combines electrical signals together with a binary weighting.
It is a DAC (digital to analog convertor).
The DAC is actually just a mixer. The top oscillator is called the MSB (most significent bit), having the highest level. Each next oscillator is attenuated to half of the
voltage of the more significant bit higher up the circuit. Thus the oscillator at the bottom of the schematic outputs the LSB (least significat bit), having the lowest
output.
Different combinations of the 4 bits (one from each oscillator) through this R/2R ladder (aka R/2R network) yields 16 different voltage values to be sent to the output.
Spares
In the lower left of the schematic are the unused portions of the IC's. Unused CMOS inputs are connected to ground, and unused opamp sections' positive inputs
connect to ground while their outputs connect to the negative input.
Why? It's not always nescessary, but Les calls it "good practice" It prevents unwanted oscillations.
comment: Modular Lunetta's often use in/outputs with some patchbay system to reconfigure. This means sometimes sections are used, and sometimes not. So you
have temporarily unused CMOS inputs, but you don't want to connect those to ground, it would disable them permanently. What you can do is connect them to
ground "partially". This is done by connecting CMOS inputs to ground THROUGH A RESISTOR. I do this with all CMOS inputs as standard method now to leave all
options open.
Connecting (tying) to ground through a resistor is called "tie down" or "pull down" (with a pulldown resistor). Connecting with a resistor to the + voltage is called
"pull up".
What value?
Rych calls using 100K "the golden standard". Uncle krunkus mentioned using 20K. Blue_Hell mentioned in the chat between 10k and 1M can be used.
(end comment)
About the supply
Ok, I've covered the show up to 27.47
Maybe I find the time to finish this later, maybe not. |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for the notes electri-fire, that was fun to read! Next show: two Boolean Sequencer Lunettas will be discussed in detail.
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5581 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject:
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Nice show Les, Listened to it yesterday.
First I build the Quad Osc. Lunetta (QLO) on a breadboard and then started the show. Since it started with the sounds of the QLO I could jam along with it .
I didn't have any 1M potentiometers though (only 5M but that didn't really work well) so I used LDR's. I never used opamps as voltage followers (at least not for audio) so thnx for the tip! ow, and I love the stereo output.
While listening I did some experiments and one of them was using a sequencer with LED outputs to control the LDR's. I got some really nice rhythms and sounds out of it. Next thing I did was making a second R2R ladder and connected the right channel (or the left,..ehm,. the one that was directly connected to the oscillator) to it. Then I connected the LSB to the MSB of the first R/2R ladder and the MSB to the LSB of the first R/2R. I used the 2 spare inverters to make 2 more oscillators to drive the remaing inputs of the second R/2R. great stereo sound!
Something I would like to know more about is protection of chips in lunettas. I mean, with all the patch cables it's easy to make a mistake and connect 2 or more outputs together, something CMOS chips usually don't really like. I think the easiest way is to use diodes on the outputs and pull up/down resisters on the inputs. Another way could be just connecting resistors in series with the ouputs (like 1K).
looking forward to the next show!
btw. The lunetta sounds where pretty loud so if possible turn the volume down a bit. The mic level was fine. |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject:
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That's great, PHOBoS, you really did some interesting things with your Lunetta. I'm glad you liked the show!
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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electri-fire
Joined: Jul 26, 2006 Posts: 536 Location: Dordrecht NL
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject:
Quad Oscillator Lunetta Mods |
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PHOBoS wrote: | I didn't have any 1M potentiometers though (only 5M but that didn't really work well) so I used LDR's. /.../ Next thing I did was making a second R2R ladder and connected the right. channel (or the left,..ehm,. the one that was directly connected to the oscillator) to it. Then I connected the LSB to the MSB of the first R/2R ladder and the MSB to the LSB of the first R/2R. I used the 2 spare inverters to make 2 more oscillators to drive the remaing inputs of the second R/2R. great stereo sound! |
Cool. I built the QOL on a piece of perfboard. Lack of 1M pots had me use 250K, with 0.47 uF caps. Works fine for audio range.
I've been poking at the circuit with other components, and one of my LEDs between pin 7 and 2 of the opamp was following the levels of the HR2R DAC very nicely. Makes a nice randomish LFO. LFO speed is not always predictable, but a multitude of waveforms are available.
Next time, for LFO function I'd like to use some bigger capacitors.
I was thinking to drive the spare invertor sections with this LED, but unfortunately I have misplaced my LDR's.
Also the spare opamp sections want LDR's for sequenced filtering. Mine do.
Anyway, with this simple two IC Lunetta a lot can be done.
The opamps are an addition I'll definitely be using more.
And I want more DACs as well. Very inspiring fun little schematic. |
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electri-fire
Joined: Jul 26, 2006 Posts: 536 Location: Dordrecht NL
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Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject:
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Oh, about the LED, maybe I should mention, I had 1k resistors in the feedbackpath of the opamp.
That's why I said my LED is between pin 7 and 2 specifically. With + side to pin 7.
Response varied with different LEDs, your milage may vary, as they say, but worth giving it a try. |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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