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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
5v or 10v for the gate and trigger levels?
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patchdub



Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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Location: Taos, NM

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: 5v or 10v for the gate and trigger levels? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi. this is probably a dumb question...

how does one determine if they need to go with 5v or 10v for the gate and trigger levels?

thanks!
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patchdub



Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if i am operating a 15v system do i want a 10v?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What level of trigger do your ENVs react too?
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patchdub



Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have a synth tech 800 which goes to 5v. is that what you mean?

...so does that mean 5v for the gate and trigger levels?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

patchdub wrote:
i have a synth tech 800 which goes to 5v.


I'm not sure what you mean by this.
What is a synth tech 800?
What inputs does it have?
Gate and trigger inputs?
For Envelope generators?
What gate and trigger levels does it require?

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patchdub



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the 800 is an envelope generator. it has gate and trigger inputs and +5v and -5v outs.

i am still pretty new to all this synth diy so i am not sure what decides between 5v or 10v. in the manual it says that the charging voltage goes to +10v.

thanks...
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If it is the Synthesis Technology MOTM-800 ADSR Envelope Generator your talking about, the GATE and TRIGGERS will fire on anythin greater than 1.5V so 5V should work fine for you.

Just remember the output range of the EG's are unrelated to the threshold upon which to trigger them into action (GATE and TRIG INPUTS).

Bill
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patchdub



Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

excellent. thank you!
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mark_olson



Joined: Oct 26, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am reviving this topic because I have a couple of related refining questions.

Are there reasons not to err on the side of 10 volt signals?

How likely is it that I will find 10 volt signals too high?

Since my system is in its infancy I don't know how to predict what signal strength I might ultimately want. Looking at the boards I have waiting for my attention, and gazing into the crystal ball a bit, I see my system eventually consisting of a lineup of the usual diy suspects: MFOS, CGS, Thomas Henry, Jürgen Haible, and a few others.

I googled around a little and the only thing I easily found that requires a 10 volt trigger is the ARP 2600. There is almost no chance I will ever see a 2600 at a yard sale for 5 or 10 dollars so I will almost certainly never own one. But are there other things out there I might want 10 volt signals for?

Any advice will be most welcome.

Thanks,

Mark
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RF



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Mark -
FWIW I've got MFOS, CGS and a bunch of other DIY - so far I have had no issues at all with the 5 volts gates....

bruce

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mark_olson



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bruce:

Thanks very much for the input.

I popped over to your Web site and looking at the module-by-module section I see that your system (very nice, man) is very much like what I hope to grow for myself.

When I started slowly working on my Klee boards several weeks ago I initially decided to do the 5 volt signals but a few days ago when it came time to commit to it I started second guessing myself.

Thanks for helping me get back down to earth.

Mark
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sduck



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One possible consideration - if you have, or may have in the future, any low pass gates, you might want to opt for the 10v gates and triggers. These type of modules generally react better with higher voltages. And I doubt that you'll ever blow anything out with the higher voltages in general.
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mark_olson



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, sduck. Although you have pushed me back into dithering Confused

So, I gather you have built your Klee with 10v signals?

The funny thing about your comment is that I hadn't really given much thought to low pass gates before - now I can't think of anything I want more!

I'm beginning to think I should poll people whose Klees are finished to see what the ratio of 5 to 10 volts is.

I'd like to think I'd have read something about it here if anybody had fried a module with a 10 volt trigger.

Well, since it looks like I won't have time to do any soldering until the weekend I have a few more days in the quagmire of self-doubt before the die will be cast.

Other opinions are still more than welcome.

Mark
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sduck



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, I built mine with 5v triggers. I often wish I'd done the 10v, as my LPG's don't really pop open at 5v. I figure you can always attenuate down 10v, but going the other way is much harder. I'm considering changing the resistor(s?) that do this - shouldn't be a big deal.
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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sduck wrote:
No, I built mine with 5v triggers. I often wish I'd done the 10v, as my LPG's don't really pop open at 5v. I figure you can always attenuate down 10v, but going the other way is much harder. I'm considering changing the resistor(s?) that do this - shouldn't be a big deal.


That is my thought... that it would be relatively easy to attenuate the 10v levels down if need be.

Since my synth accepts 10v throughout I'm using the 10v triggers.

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RF



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe it's just me....but I use these things called "Envelope Generators" Wink ... so the output of the Klee just has to trigger those.

Quit dithering and build!

bruce

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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
Maybe it's just me....but I use these things called "Envelope Generators" Wink ... so the output of the Klee just has to trigger those.


True, however, I found that I couldn't drive more than five of my Aries EGs -- since I have six this was a problem at times. (My solution to this issue was to build comparators for my Gates and Triggers.)

In addition to EGs, Gates and Triggers can be sent to Sync, S/H, and Track-and-hold inputs, too. Also, one can fashion a "cheap and dirty" AR generator by running a Gate through a Lag and then on to something else.

To take gates and triggers for granted is easy until they don't work well... then they become a headache.

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mark_olson



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:

Quit dithering and build!


Okay, Okay.

Based on the comments I've gotten here I think I'll go with 10 volts. If it comes to it, attenuating seems a lot easier than amplifying.

I finally figured out how to articulate the underlying question in my mind: "if 10 volt signals are an acceptable all-purpose solution, why is there a provision made to build with 5?"

Not that I'm actually asking though Smile

Mark
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built mine with 10V triggers.
I actually don't have much to trigger except my ASM2 and the MPS. I know they're both fine with 10V, and I figured that anything which it might smoke could be fixed and fitted with a zener.

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sduck



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
Maybe it's just me....but I use these things called "Envelope Generators" Wink ... so the output of the Klee just has to trigger those.
bruce


When I built my klee that's all I had also. So I didn't give any consideration to other options. Hence my suggestion about using 10v.

While the 4.5v will actually open the LPG's and make them useable, when you put higher voltage triggers into them is when they really start to do the special stuff that they're capable of doing. A workaround I sometimes use is to fire the klee triggers into a VCS, and using that to fire the LPG - the vcs has a variable voltage out, and can be set to whatever you need.
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mark_olson



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know why it didn't occur to me to just ask the circuit designer in the first place, but it didn't.

I asked Scott about it and he confirmed what most of you have been saying: the chances of frying anything with 10 volt signals is very remote, and 10 volt signals have the potential to stimulate a more satisfactory response in some situations.

So, 10 it will be.

I am really glad I didn't just ask Scott first though because this discussion has brought to light a few things I probably would not otherwise have thought about, not the least of which is low pass gates.

Thank you all!

Mark
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