electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Strings and things
Hex pickup + synth basics
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: BobTheDog
Page 1 of 2 [38 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:35 am    Post subject: Hex pickup + synth basics Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I'm getting eager to get myself a hex pickup and a synth to connect it to - or whatever it takes to get some MIDI-per-string functionality. I'm looking at the Roland VG-99 - it would be cool to have a dedicated synth for the guitar in addition to sending MIDI to the G2 and other stuff.

Then onto pickups. It's sometimes hard to see what fits with what - am I right if I assume that I can use a Roland GK3 (http://www.roland.com/products/en/GK-3/index.html) to connect six individual strings to the VG99? They call it "GK connector"...

Otherwise - any tips on other gear that might be better?

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DrJustice



Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2041
Location: Morokulien
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Hex pickup + synth basics Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good move Stefan Smile

The GK-3 is the one to get as your first hex pickup. It can be mounted without modding your guitar in any way. If you have a Tune'o'matic -type bridge, you can use the supplied bracket to mount it on the bridge. Alternatively it can be mounted using double sided tape, or with two tiny screws if you can bear making the holes in your axe.

All things hexaphonic use the Roland "13 pin" interface. It's pretty much a de facto standard, so you can mix and match all your hex pickups, synths, MIDI converters etc..

I'd definitely get a VG-99. It must be said, though, that you can get better and much more advanced guitar-to-MIDI functionality using an Axon AX 50 or AX 100. The VG-99's strength lies in its sublime resynthesis and the fx processing - you do not want to miss out on that.

DJ
--
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
miketheman



Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 56
Location: Gothenburg, sweden

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stefan,

you could also check out RMC pickups or Graphtech Ghost system if you haven´t done so already. Depending on what kind of guitar you´ve got, the installation isn´t more difficult than changing your bridge saddles and make a hole for the 13pin jackplate (which can be in the pickcover or in the guitarbody itself). And of course you should also be confident to read some schematics to connect the whole internal system in your guitar. Not much soldering needed, ghost system is removable.

I´ve got the ghost system myself and are satisfied with it. I´m attempting to try to "enhance" the acoustic sound (got both FAAS and hexpander preamps) with some filter manipulation in my G2 engine. We´ll see how it works out...

RMC also got the FanOut Box which is quite cool, diy version can be found on unfretteds site: (http://www.unfretted.com/loader.php?LINK=/profs/breakout)

Axon AX100mkII, is good for midiconversion only (internal sounds sucks). However, this model allows you to modify its settings on the frontpanel anytime, if you would like to leave computer at home when you have a gig. Thats why I choosed this one. AX50 doesn´t have any internal sounds so which software you´ll use on your computer is on your choice. With both USB and hardware MIDI ports it´s really versatile, so I guess there´s no problem in using it with your G2 and any software at the same time.
There´s a computer editor aviable for both models (I think both use the same editor). I guess you´d reach it via the USB port on AX50, but you´ll have to use a midi interface with your AX100mkII which is a downside of course. Any Axon requires some deeper programming based on trial-and-error experiences though. That is to avoid false triggers and to get the sensitivity right... Confused

And you´ll also need to learn to play "cleaner" to avoid false triggering in the first place... Rolling Eyes
I´m going to try to ease out that issue with some midiprocessing in my G2, but that may introduce some latency. But anyway, it will be fun with your G2. Plus that most (if not all) shortcomings in the axon can be solved/worked around within the G2... Cool
For myself, I solved the issue about being able to use the axon in separate stringmode but merging all 6 midichannels so all of them could trigg/play the same sounds within the same patch in another slot in my G2 engine. I haven´t looked into if it´s possible to do it all in one slot though.

Roland VG-series are cool, but I don´t how well they´re doing with MIDI conversion. Perhaps you´ll need a GI-20 or a Axon as well, I don´t know.

You could also have Keith McMillens StringPort instead, if you rather skip the midi conversion and its "low resolution" and would like to send full audio into a computer instead. Imagine what you could do with this one and a Kyma system...!!! Shocked Very Happy Or ask BobTheDog, If I´m recalling it right: he has done it with his RMC FanOutBox into his Kyma system.

Further on, you could then invest in a rackvax too, and have all the cool Line6 variax workbench stuff aviable as well. Cool thing is that its seems to be fully compatible with any hex pickups! Twisted Evil

F**k. I need some serious money for a Kyma, rackvax system. I thought I had left G.A.S-land when I bought my Axe Fx Ultra... Laughing Laughing Laughing

/Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice post, miketheman - thanks! Smile Unfortunately I've already committed myself to a VG-99 (thanks DrJustice for info and assurance too Smile ), might arrive on the post today! I might have reason to check out some other those other things anyway, and I'm sure it can serve as good info for others who are on the same path.

I've been following Kyma talk here with interest - for the moment my budget will have to cover this guitar thingie though.

Re: playing cleaner - I'm very curious about how this will work in practice. My experiments with single note lines using the G2's pitch detector have been fun, but not entirely successful cleanwise.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GovernorSilver



Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 1334
Location: Washington DC Metro
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
Unfortunately I've already committed myself to a VG-99 (thanks DrJustice for info and assurance too Smile ),


I disagree - you might find your decision to be a fortunate one rather than unfortunate. Wink I think you will enjoy the VG-99.

I currently play bass lines with my VG-99 in our band. The tracking of these bass lines (modeled in realtime by the VG using the real string sound as the source) is superior to playing bass patches on MIDI guitar - it is after all the performance of an effects processor vs. MIDI.

I thought I would eventually trigger an external synth via the VG-99's MIDI Out, but so far I have not needed to do so. I still want to have it's MIDI output trigger my Korg M3's KARMA 2 function for some generative fun.

_________________
Current and recent work on Soundcloud

Some old stuff on VIRB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3844
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Guys,

Just a couple of things.

1. The GK pickups work much better than any piezo pickup with the VG range.

2. The midi converter in the VG99 is the same as the GI-20.

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Received the gear in the post on friday, and have tried it out a little bit over the weekend (had a friend over to visit so I couldn't dive right in). First tests are very promising - the GK3 was a breeze to install with tape and control unit holder on my Squier Strat. I love the different preset models - it's a bit like magic how the guitar turns into sitars and weird synth pads and other stuff. I haven't tried the guitar to MIDI thing yet.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3844
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good stuff, I remember loving the "All Eees" patch on the VG99 when I got it, have you tried that one.

Did you get the FC-300 pedal board with it?

Cheers

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool, I have to try out that E patch. I didn't get the pedal board - is it nice? Do you get some unexpected benefits (as compared to other pedal boards - I tend to associate this stuff with wah and volume effects)?

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DrJustice



Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2041
Location: Morokulien
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congrats and welcome to the wonderful world of hexaphonics, Stefan!

You may know already, but make sure to set up the GK calibration very carefully, not using too high levels in most circumstances (BTW, you can store several GK setups). If you get any unwanted squeeling on high gain sounds I recommend wax-potting the GK-3. As a VG user you should also have a look here.

DJ
--
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DrJustice



Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2041
Location: Morokulien
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stefan, the VG uses an ethernet cable with RJ-45 plugs for two way communication with the FC-300 using a sysex protocol. The FC-300 is even powered by that connection. Thus, the VG has special support for that pedal board - it 'just works' and the patch numbers and names are shown in its display. Additionally the FC-300 is an extremely rugged unit and it's very flexible with lots of programming options for use with other MIDI gear. A good investment for electro-guitarist IMO.

DJ
--
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3844
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep it is very good, very well built if a little expensive!

Benefits include:

High resolution pedals via cat5 cable to vg99.

Both pedals also have on/off switches to map in the vg99.

Two main switches and the ability to add another simple switch or a roland 3 switch unit.

Ability to add two more pedals.

Patch names displayed on display.

Tuner displayed on display.

Also can be setup to send/receive midi messages via cables or via the cat5 cable and VG99 into a computer.

The VG99 is very strong when it comes to mapping controls, basically everything can be mapped, and one control can map to two parameters.

So the pedals can be used for anything not just volume and wah, for example one to Cutoff and one to Resonance. Also very useful for fading between the A and B engines.

It is a useful bit of kit!


The E patch is actually called "All E Moving" preset 231.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool, thanks! Smile

Actually, I feel that I got it to sound great right away - I love the interface where you set levels and tune individual strings, it's very easy to use.

Possibly the levels are a bit low, but that might just be that I'm scared to turn up the volume too much (I'm always concerned about the neighbours, and some patches are louder than others, so when I'm wearing headphones and flip through them I'm scared that some will blow out my eardrums if I turn up the volume on others). I'm going to adjust the millimeter distance between the mics and the bridge saddles though.

The FC300 might be something to look into, thanks for some great info.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DrJustice



Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2041
Location: Morokulien
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Tuner displayed on display.

Thanks - I've never noticed that... Embarassed
Very nice breakdown of the FC benefits.

@ Antimon: It really is a great box, innit! And the user interface is very good. It's obvious that a lot of work went into this thing. Inspired by your fresh enthusiasm I'm going to have a play with mine (been a lot of straight guitar + tube-amp lately for the sake of just learning to play).

DJ
--
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3844
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Strangely enough I have also just been playing with mine!

A firmware update for the RIP interface the dusk tiger uses has cleared up all my problems and it now works via 13 pin pretty well.

The VG99 possibilities are fairly endless.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a little test drive using mainly the synth sounds. Smile Everything except percussion is done using a VG-99 connected to a GK-3-equipped Squier strat.

/Stefan


Knotwork.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Knotwork.mp3
 Filesize:  1.8 MB
 Downloaded:  1169 Time(s)


_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DrJustice



Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2041
Location: Morokulien
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Vad kul!
Now you're fully operative Very Happy
That lil' piece had an almost medieval vibe to it.

DJ
--
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20517
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Listened a couple of times, very promising (and a good idea to drop a link in the chat Wink )
_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys. Very Happy

The synth models together with polyphonic pitch detection make this feel a bit like a completely new kind of instrument.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3844
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well you certainly seem to be getting better results than I do with the synth modules, I find them incredibly noisey.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah. For that tune I turned off the amp modeling, and I didn't play chords except the two-fingered bowed sound that comes halfway through. Also, i tweaked down the sensitivity - I've never been a big fan of envelope followed filter sweeps anyway. After doing that, I think it sounded nice; I started to get some of the responses I was looking for. Strumming doesn't feel like the thing to do with the synth sounds here.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another thing is that while I can't decide which of the amp-related modeling in the VG-99 and the Line-6 Pod X3 (which I've had for a while) is better, the Roland unit beats the Pod's interface by miles. It's not that the menu-diving on the Pod is the worst I've ever seen, but the way the VG is set up with pages means that instead of zapping between presets (like I do on the Pod) because the details are cumbersome to reach, I end up zapping between models and effects and the myriads of settings they all have, with wonderful ease.

Sure, you can always reach the bass/middle/treble/presence knobs on the Pod, but I tend to want to reach the other settings just as often. Good job on the interface, Roland!

OT for the hex pickup topic, but it's such a clear side-benefit that it deserves mentioning.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3844
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have always thought the amp modelling on the VG99 is the weakest part especially for clean sounds.

I think if I ever started playing live again though it would win for me over lugging an amp around or using a laptop though. A couple of guitars and a VG99 would easily fit in my car while an amp just wouldn't.

I haven't used a Pod X3 but I think they use the same code as the Flextone III XL amp I have which sounds great but is rather heavy!

Amp modelling seems to be a strange thing, Waves GTR is my favourite but doesn't sound good with the Dusk Tiger for some weird reason while the amp models in NI Gtr Rig 4 sound great with it, for all my other guitars Waves Gtr is far superior.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3694
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 269
G2 patch files: 96

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tried out the midi to guitar function: http://www.df.lth.se/~flash/bakelit/vg99_git2midi.mp3 Smile

All except the drums are NMG2 patches triggered by the guitar (including the guitar-like sound you hear as the song starts). It skips a little, but I think I can make great use of this when making melodies. This I recorded straight to audio, one can record to MIDI in the DAW and make corrections if it proves too difficult to get a take right without false or extra notes being triggered.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GovernorSilver



Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 1334
Location: Washington DC Metro
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
Here's a little test drive using mainly the synth sounds. Smile Everything except percussion is done using a VG-99 connected to a GK-3-equipped Squier strat.

/Stefan


Very nice. I like!

Cool

_________________
Current and recent work on Soundcloud

Some old stuff on VIRB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: BobTheDog
Page 1 of 2 [38 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Strings and things
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use