electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Rob Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Sequencers
MOTU MIDI Express, Emagic AMT8, Windows, and Linux
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [24 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: MOTU MIDI Express, Emagic AMT8, Windows, and Linux
Subject description: Can't we all just get along?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Couldn't find a more appropriate forum to post this in. My question does pertain to sequencing, via MIDI.

I have a MOTU MIDI Express XT and an Emagic AMT8. I got the AMT8 because MOTU and Linux do not get along. OTOH, the AMT8 doesn't show up in Sonar on Windows.

I would like to rig my stuff together so I can use any of my synths in either Windows or Linux without having to manually re-patch everything every time I switch (which would be 6 ins and 6 outs), which would be frequently if all goes well with a new computer I'm getting soon. Does anyone think I could patch my synths into the MOTU and plug the MOTU into the AMT8 via #8 in/out on the front of the MOTU, with the MOTU plugged into the Windows machine via USB and the AMT8 plugged into the Linux machine via USB?

Or am I plugging stuff into my ass here?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3861
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I haven't got an AMT8 but doesn't it allow you to program internal routings?

If so you could plug the synths into the AMT8 and connect the XT to the AMT8 and maybe route via channel in the AMT8?

Or you could use routing software on the pc to accomplish the same thing with the XT but the machine would have to be on.

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall something about routing. I'll have to look it up and ultimately just try it!

I'll post back what I find out. Might be a week or two as I set up my new computer first.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2488
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have both of the same (AMT8 and Motu MIDI Express (Micro though).

The MOTU allows routing, in standalone mode, or even while attached to the computer.

The AMT8 routes in stand-alone mode, but does not route while attached to the computer. However, this doesn't seem to matter for you!

[edit - by routing, I mean the device does it's own remapping and routing. When attached to the computer, all 8 ins & outs show up as direct ports to the computer. the MOTU however has the 8 physical ins & outs that can still be routed among themselves despite having a computer attached.]

I'd route all your synths into the MOTU.
- Then for Windows, attached the MOTU via USB to the PC.
- For Linux, your idea is solid: attach the AMT8, and talk through 1 or more MIDI channels to the MOTU.

This way, you could have BOTH computers attached to ALL of your gear, and each other Wink (Unless this is a dual-boot situation)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3861
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah I missed the XT bit, sorry about that!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:

This way, you could have BOTH computers attached to ALL of your gear, and each other Wink (Unless this is a dual-boot situation)


Thanks!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2488
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure! I hope it works as described Rolling Eyes Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: MOTU MIDI Express, Emagic AMT8, Windows, and Linux
Subject description: Can't we all just get along?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

audiodef wrote:
a new computer I'm getting soon.


Speaking of which, there will be more on this. I just spent the afternoon rigging a ventilation fan to a Proliant blade server and now it's just about quiet. I'll post a link to a blog post I plan to write soon. This will be an episode of Trick My Machine. Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2488
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: MOTU MIDI Express, Emagic AMT8, Windows, and Linux
Subject description: Can't we all just get along?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

audiodef wrote:
I just spent the afternoon rigging a ventilation fan to a Proliant blade server and now it's just about quiet.


Woah! Does that come with Ableton Question Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, but it comes with that geeky-cool Robbie the Robot look.

Gotta move things into their final positions. Pics to follow!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This deserved its own slot!

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-281094.html#281094
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:

The MOTU allows routing, in standalone mode, or even while attached to the computer.

I'd route all your synths into the MOTU.
- Then for Windows, attached the MOTU via USB to the PC.
- For Linux, your idea is solid: attach the AMT8, and talk through 1 or more MIDI channels to the MOTU.

This way, you could have BOTH computers attached to ALL of your gear, and each other


Would you know how I should configure the MOTU? I have an Ion plugged in/out on port 3 of the MOTU and MOTU port 8 in/out connected to AMT port 8 in/out. I have to push some buttons on the MOTU, but am not sure what. Through this connection, I'm trying to get a signal in my DAW, which is connected to the AMT via USB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just tried Clockworks, from MOTU, for internal routing of the XT, but it seems a bit limited. I'm hoping you'll have more insight, but it's looking like the best solution is to keep the XT and the EMT8 stacked together and physically switch the cables when I need to. Which is not too big a deal. I just set up Ubuntu on my "new" Proliant and I'm able to record audio and MIDI without xruns or glitches (although I haven't run a heavy-load test yet). If this setup works out, I'm going to be converting old project files over to formats I can work with in Linux anyway, which will mean the MOTU will eventually get shelved. If not, I can live with manually re-patching as needed. Maybe even turn the units around so they're facing ass-out. Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2488
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Clockworks is a lot more confusing to me than the Emagic editor for the AMT, too!! It has the possibility of routing *while* being attached to a computer, so things are more complicated anyways, I guess. For certain, it can do more than the Emagic can do. It's probably just a matter of find how to do it Sad Sad
[edit - changed so phpBB didn't muck with the formatting]
It seems you want to route
Code:
In the MOTU :
  Ion  -  AMT8
   ( MIDI IN 3 => MIDI OUT 8 )
   ( MIDI IN 8 => MIDI OUT 3 )
In the AMT8/Linux:
  Connect in Jack, or whatever, to AMT8/IN8 and OUT8.

In Clockworks, First select a "user" preset to edit. Any will do, and you can name it. Then go to the Route tab, and drag from 3 on the left, to 8 on the right. Then drag from 8 on left, to 3 on the right. That accomplishes the routing list above for the MOTU. Make sure there are no mutings or mappings (see those tabs).

That should route your Ion through to the ports connected to the AMT8. By selecting the preset in clockworks, your MOTU should also have that preset selected (it will light up "User" and the appropriate present name).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think that's what I did. The problem, though, is right back at square one - that MOTU is hostile to Linux and there is no current way to see the box on a Linux machine - and hence routing is moot while I'm working with Linux. I tried running Clockworks under Wine - and I can - but the operating system can't see the MOTU.

I don't for the life of me know why some programmer somewhere hasn't simply written or reverse-engineered a Linux driver, and screw MOTU's copyright and proprietary bullshit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CJ Miller



Joined: Jan 07, 2007
Posts: 371
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have read that there are Linux drivers for the MOTU MTP-AV, but I haven't tried it myself. Either this model is easier, perhaps, or it's just what the coder had on hand.

You could also try using the Linux and Windoze versions of MidiShare and send MIDI between them over ethernet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Midishare sounds like fun either way. I'll check it out!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektrik_muz



Joined: Mar 11, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: way out

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi. Was just digging info on this and passed this thread so I might as well dump some of it here--

There is indeed an open source driver for the MOTU midi interfaces, but it only works with the pre-usb models that included the PC parallel port interface. The only way to use the current usb models with this driver is to connect them to one of the old parallel devices via the network port (for the models that include a network port, obviously).

Variants of the driver are available for linux, BSD and BeOS/Haiku. The name of the linux driver is snd-mtpav.ko and it's already installed on all the distros I have and appears to be part of a standard ALSA package. There is a trick to get it to actually load and work: more on that here:

http://osdir.com/ml/linux.agnula.general/2005-07/msg00043.html

I'm preparing an old box with a parallel port to test this at the moment so I can't vouch for the info in the above link just yet. I have tried the BeOS driver with a pair of networked MTPs. On the system I put together it was too buggy to be usable but it does see the device and all sixteen midi ports (has trouble keeping track of them, unfortunately). I'm hoping for better luck with linux when I try it

One last thing: If you really want to use MOTU's internal routing functions on these boxes, I would strongly advise against using the windows or osx versions of Clockworks. The last "real" Clockworks was the Mac OS9 version and after that MOTU stripped out at least half the functionality as they weren't interested in supporting those features anymore. They're buggy too -- I've noticed that even starting the program in osx with connected hardware will cause instant patch corruption. So if you really want to use those features, get an old mac that can run os9 directly (emulators won't cut it here, you can read up on the old freemidi standard if you really want to know why) and use it as a dedicated MOTU interface control box. OS9 Clockworks does have it's kinks but if you make sure the "auto tech assistant" option is enabled it should work well enough.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Holy crap. It sounds like MOTU's interfaces are pretty much crap if you need more than simple connections. Don't get me wrong - my Express XT works great with my current Windows/Sonar 8 setup, but ALL I need is to connect my synths to the computer. I don't need any fancy routing (my simple routing needs can be handled in Sonar anyway).

I'm glad I got the AMT8. I have no trouble using it in Linux with snd-usb-midi.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msepsis



Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 15
Location: oakland, ca

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

audiodef wrote:
... ALL I need is to connect my synths to the computer.

dude.
google "alsa motu"

hope this helps!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

msepsis, I know about the ALSA MOTU driver in Linux, but it doesn't run the XT.

It's a moot point now - I no longer use Windows for my DAW, and now that it's been brought to my attention, I realise I don't need my XT any more. I need to take it out of my rack and put it away.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msepsis



Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 15
Location: oakland, ca

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

audiodef wrote:
msepsis, I know about the ALSA MOTU driver in Linux, but it doesn't run the XT.


Good you got what you need working how you want..

Actually module-mtpav with the right kung-fu does the trick to "connect synths to the computer"... just didn't want your thread to discourage people from trying to use an XT with Linux. The alsa-project page on setting up the interface is no longer relavant, but there is info out there on getting this to work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nobody



Joined: Mar 09, 2008
Posts: 1687
Location: Not here

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Groovy. If so, that'd be great because at some point I will run out of ports on my EMT8. If I can get the XT to work, that's an extra 8 ports.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elektrik_muz



Joined: Mar 11, 2010
Posts: 4
Location: way out

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So anyway about a million years later...

I did put that machine together, but unfortunately the hardware was a bit sub-par and I think the motherboard just expired. Also had a lot of trouble getting it to run recent distros. The best I could do for midi stuff was last dyne:bolic alpha that was released for testing purposes -- the last official release has kernel-related issues that completely nix the external midi input.

Anyway it did work for awhile -- sort of. As soon as I enabled the interface with "modprobe snd-mtpav" the midi output from the computer seemed to flow through pretty well (not that I performed any exhaustive timing measurements -- just seemed to be basically OK on the TX).

Unfortunately midi input to the computer from the interface didn't fare so well. In fact it only worked slightly better than the BeOS version of this driver in that it didn't crash the machine. I could only get fragments of the midi data stream through to the software if at all, as the input would frequently just quit entirely.

As I said this isn't a fair test but I'll have to wait till I get another box with a parallel port to try again. Dyne:bolic seemed to have no trouble enabling the interface with the single command but it's still possible some other modules were getting in the way and causing the input problems I experienced.

BTW I think there might be some confusion on this thread about which specific hardware the mtpav driver works with. The O.P. stated that he has the USB version of the XT. If this is the case then he is correct in stating that it will not work because it is designed for the previous generation of motu interfaces that used the parallel port and can only connect to the newer USB versions indirecly in the manner I described in my previous post. People sometimes make this mistake since motu more or less re-released the old units with the new interface and the letters "USB" tacked onto the end of the old model names.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [24 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Sequencers
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use