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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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 Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:28 am Post subject:
Physical Modelling Module - VTL5C3/2 ? |
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I know I'm a bit lazy / distracted by other things lately, and you're surely waiting for several PCBs I have already announced ...
But anyway: here's another thing I've started some months ago.
It goes bck to my Analogue Physical Modelling experiments:
http://www.jhaible.de/jh_ana_phys_mod.html
Back then, I've made these samples with the Storm Tide Flanger, a Buchla Low Pass Gate clone, an EMS-like Trapezoid generator and a Diode Waveshaper.
I didn't write down any settings, not even the complete signal path, and I've never been able to reproduce these sounds. And 1V/Oct tracking of the BBD clock ist difficult, because of the high clock rate.
But here's an idea: Put to gether all the necessary components on a single 160mm x 100mm sized PCB:
(1) a low voltage BBD (easily available, noise isn't an issue here)
(2) a PLL to derive the BBD clock from ...
(3) a single "Living VCO" core
(4) a diode waveshaper
(5) a simple AR envelope generator
(6) two low pass gates (one set as filter, one set as VCA)
The design is half-finished. Question: Is there any interest in something like that? Are VTL5C3/2 vactrols easily available still?
http://www.jhaible.de/physmod/physmod_preview.jpg
JH.
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The Bad Producer
Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 282
Location: The Manhole
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:20 am Post subject:
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That sounds really great, very interesting!
I must admit the 'wait' you allude to has allowed me to catch up on my backlog of boards I've bought from you, and actually use them to make music!
The samples you have posted are quite remarkable, and I would surely be interested in the usual 4 boards... VTL5C3/2 vactrols are available fairly easily all over the world from many sources.
I assume, as with your other projects, that the build could be pretty open-ended, I can imagine this with a fairly 'scientific' looking panel, with each section (PLL, VCA, Waveshaper) available for patching enabling lots of experimentation with physical modelling... Or would you suggest lots of 'normalling' to achieve a standard signal path?
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The Peasant
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
Posts: 99
Location: Sunny Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:30 am Post subject:
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I would definitely be interested in at least one.
Take care,
Doug
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject:
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| The Bad Producer wrote: | That sounds really great, very interesting!
I must admit the 'wait' you allude to has allowed me to catch up on my backlog of boards I've bought from you, and actually use them to make music!
The samples you have posted are quite remarkable, and I would surely be interested in the usual 4 boards... VTL5C3/2 vactrols are available fairly easily all over the world from many sources.
I assume, as with your other projects, that the build could be pretty open-ended, I can imagine this with a fairly 'scientific' looking panel, with each section (PLL, VCA, Waveshaper) available for patching enabling lots of experimentation with physical modelling... Or would you suggest lots of 'normalling' to achieve a standard signal path? |
I'll keep the board rather "open", to allow the use of the separate functions as building-blocks. Sort of (tiny) "modular on a PCB".
Most of the potentiometers can either be trimpots or real potentiometers. Took me a while to see the benefit of a "mixed footprint" here. - I'll probably build my prototype with trimpots and make connections with alligator clips, and if I happen to get a single acoustic-like sound out of it, I'll make a batch of PCBs and see what huge front panels with lots of controls you all come up with, and what range of sounds you'll get out of it. 
JH.
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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Luka
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: Melb.
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject:
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Anyhow..
Last edited by TekniK on Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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janvanvolt
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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fluxmonkey
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 708
Location: cleve
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:42 pm Post subject:
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nifty, i'd be in for 4.
in the US, VTL5C3/2 are available from Allied, looks like they have plenty in stock.
b
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wmonk
Joined: Sep 15, 2008
Posts: 528
Location: Enschede, the Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:34 am Post subject:
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Here the VTL5C3/2 are 6 euros, and for such a project, that is no problem!
I'm interested in one board.
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glacial23
Joined: Apr 30, 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Cleveland, OH
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:32 am Post subject:
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I think I'm interested in getting one of these.
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guitarfool
Joined: Feb 26, 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject:
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Of course I'd be interested in 2 or 3.
The VTL5C3/2 is also available from Smallbear at 6 USD each.
I still have a small stockpile of them myself from years ago. |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:30 am Post subject:
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JH, Please see this thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-36165-275.html
for a modular development project that I've been working on for some months. It is a lot like what you're doing. Maybe we should collaborate a little bit and share experiences. I plan to do other similar boards as well.
Les
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:35 am Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: | JH, Please see this thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-36165-275.html
for a modular development project that I've been working on for some months. It is a lot like what you're doing. Maybe we should collaborate a little bit and share experiences. I plan to do other similar boards as well.
Les |
I looked at the schemos - it's a direct clocked BBD with HF VCO, right?
What I'm going to try is replacing this with a PLL setup. To what outcome, I cannot predict. I hope it will give an improovement in tracking - that's why I want to try it.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | I looked at the schemos - it's a direct clocked BBD with HF VCO, right?
What I'm going to try is replacing this with a PLL setup. To what outcome, I cannot predict. I hope it will give an improovement in tracking - that's why I want to try it.
JH. |
OK, well yes you are correct. What you are doing is different. I guess I am thinking more generally here. I see a new category of modular synthesizer modules opening up, and these are the first few steps in that category. I thought it might be useful to share notes...
Les
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: |
OK, well yes you are correct. What you are doing is different. I guess I am thinking more generally here. I see a new category of modular synthesizer modules opening up, and these are the first few steps in that category. I thought it might be useful to share notes...
Les |
I always love to talk, but as I see it, your board is already finshed, and mine is almost ...
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | I always love to talk, but as I see it, your board is already finshed, and mine is almost ...
JH. |
Well cool, you are a lot faster than me. I have to wait like months just to buy parts for a few modules, sigh. Well anyway let me know if you want to discuss the future modules.
Les
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
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| Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Physical Modelling Module - VTL5C3/2 ? |
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| jhaible wrote: |
But here's an idea: Put to gether all the necessary components on a single 160mm x 100mm sized PCB:
(1) a low voltage BBD (easily available, noise isn't an issue here)
(2) a PLL to derive the BBD clock from ...
(3) a single "Living VCO" core
(4) a diode waveshaper
(5) a simple AR envelope generator
(6) two low pass gates (one set as filter, one set as VCA)
JH. |
so much things on one little board ?
i like to have best circuitry on a "integrated" physical modelling module.
No compromises ! If you can handle this on one PCB: wonderful !
The better the 1V/oct tracking is, the better !
i prefer a complex circuit much more than a simple one even if the win is not that much
my wish would be the superduper phisical modelling module. the NO-compromise solution.
please ! |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:52 am Post subject:
Re: Physical Modelling Module - VTL5C3/2 ? |
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| Funky40 wrote: | | jhaible wrote: |
But here's an idea: Put to gether all the necessary components on a single 160mm x 100mm sized PCB:
(1) a low voltage BBD (easily available, noise isn't an issue here)
(2) a PLL to derive the BBD clock from ...
(3) a single "Living VCO" core
(4) a diode waveshaper
(5) a simple AR envelope generator
(6) two low pass gates (one set as filter, one set as VCA)
JH. |
so much things on one little board ?
i like to have best circuitry on a "integrated" physical modelling module.
No compromises ! If you can handle this on one PCB: wonderful ! |
Well, you saw the picture:
http://www.jhaible.de/physmod/physmod_preview.jpg
No compromise here. It contains, for instance, the whole diode waveshaper that I've used for these old samples on my web site:
http://www.jhaible.de/jh_shaper_B.pdf
plus voltage control via transistor pairs (3046) instead of OTAs.
And even though the Living VCO core is just used as a source for the PLL to track the BBD clock, I left the whole PWM stuff in there, too, so you can use it as an ordinary VCO as well.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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vtl5c3
Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 425
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:56 am Post subject:
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| Sure, Juergen, twist my arm. I'll take one! |
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2thick4uni
Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject:
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| I'm in for one pcb.......... |
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loydb
Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 393
Location: Providence, RI
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:39 pm Post subject:
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| In for one or two. |
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ach_gott
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:59 am Post subject:
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I'm in for two!  |
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 937
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:49 am Post subject:
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This is really nice Juergen.
Would also be nice to have it in a small single unit! |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 809
Location: melbourne australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject:
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| add another one to the list for me too please |
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decaying.sine
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 92
Location: New Haven, CT, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject:
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| interested in 1 board. |
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