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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Strings and things
Hex pickup + synth basics
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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
Tried out the midi to guitar function: http://www.df.lth.se/~flash/bakelit/vg99_git2midi.mp3 Smile

All except the drums are NMG2 patches triggered by the guitar (including the guitar-like sound you hear as the song starts). It skips a little, but I think I can make great use of this when making melodies. This I recorded straight to audio, one can record to MIDI in the DAW and make corrections if it proves too difficult to get a take right without false or extra notes being triggered.

/Stefan


Is this clip longer than 8 seconds? Or do I just need to clear my browser cache?

it already sounds better than my cello-VG99-MIDI example. Smile

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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's 2:41 long, and it's quite good. Stefan has this thing licked methinks Very Happy

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Antimon



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! I've may have gotten a bit lucky with the setup - it really feels like this can be userful in many ways.

/Stefan

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GovernorSilver



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I figured out I have to do a "Save As" on the demo. Now that I was able to listen to the full demo, I can give compliments to Antimon. Cool
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
Thanks! I've may have gotten a bit lucky with the setup - it really feels like this can be userful in many ways.

/Stefan


I think it is excellent for a direct to audio recording, you seem to have got the hang of it pretty well, good job.

You have a lifetime of enjoyment ahead.

6 channel is the way to go next so you need 6 "synths" basically one on each channel, something I never got the NM2 to do unfortunately, unless you have two of them?

Kontakt is excellent at this, probably the best I have tried with midi guitar.

Many synths seem to smooth the pitch-bend info which arses it up big time.

I am very happy you have taken this path.

All the best

Andy
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miketheman



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:


...6 channel is the way to go next so you need 6 "synths" basically one on each channel, something I never got the NM2 to do unfortunately, unless you have two of them?



6 (midi) channels can be done within the NM2, even in one slot (regardless of the slots own midichannel!). I don´t fully understand HOW it works, but it DOES work. Because I have been successful with this in my G2 engine by using the NoteZone module (in NM2 midi modules section). However, if the voice allocation in NM2 is "right/good" or not for this is not really up to me to confirm/deny. Since I´m not quite sure that I fully understand the logical thinking of those kind of things... (hey, I´m a guitarist. You can´t blame me being smart!).

I don´t know about the differencies in VG vs Axon. But in Axon there´s a possibility to choose which setup you want with your guitar (regarding whether your synths accept one or more midichannels).

In the Axon the only two options are: common or separate mode.
Common mode combines all strings "into one midichannel" (thus no pitchbend information will be transmitted). In separate mode each string have their own midi channel (and thus pitchbend information will be transmitted).

I thought for some time that it were not possible to use separate mode (transmitting six midi channels) into one slot in NM2. And that I therefore would need to use each slot in NM2 for each string and therefore being short of two slots to cover all strings. Thus being in need of a second NM2 (as you´re questioning in your post, Andy).

But when I tried to make the settings of the slots own midichannels in my G2 engine, so that they could be used with my Axon (in separate mode).
It occured to me that no matter how I made the settings, it didn´t end up correct. I don´t recall exactly how the error revealed itself but it somehow where some kind of internal "interference" that made NM2 respond strange to my playing (when/which it shouldn´t have). This (luckily) had me thinking.

So when I thought about it a little bit longer. I realized that I started to refuse to believe that it would be possible to setup a really complex patch in NM2. In which it could communicate with external devices (by using the MIDI control automate module). But not being able to receive more than one midi channel in each slot?! What good would the MIDI control automate module be of then???

So I made up my mind that I would go and solve this issue. And eventually I discovered the NoteZone module. Where you are able to set the RCV channel (MIDI receive channel) and then which channel you´d like to transmit on. The beauty of this module is the selectable options of which transmit channel you´d like to use:

1-16, THIS, Slot A, Slot B, Slot C and Slot D.

By using six NoteZone modules each with their separate midi receive channel (for each string), and having all modules transmit on THIS. You´ll kind of sum up all the incoming midichannels into THIS slot (whichever slot you are using). Remember: that slot should of course have its own different midichannel setup so that there will not be any "interference" from the incoming (string) midi channels in your NoteZone modules.

An even more extremely wierd/cool option with the NoteZone module is that you are able to set a transpose offset (transmitted) within that module itself. I know, it´s no problem to transpose in the oscillatormodules themselves. But it all kinda came up as a logical consequential thinking when seeing that option in the NoteZone modules.
Ever wondered how it would "sound" to play an (normal stringed) guitar with a sound like that it were invert stringed (but normal tuned)?

That is: if you took a lefthanded guitar, played it as a righthanded guitar and with the strings tuned as if it would be a normal stringed/tuned righthanded guitar???

Go ahead and set the transpose offset for each string to invert their octaves... Confused Shocked Cool Laughing
Or why not use some more NoteZone modules and go "synth" 12-, 18-, 24-stringed guitar. Did someone say POG/HOG? Nah... I´ll have my G2 thanks! Laughing
Realize though that the Encore electronics DSP expansion could be quite handy after all... (http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_dsp1.html).

Sad thing with all this is that suddenly you realize that even a lifetime, experimenting with these things only, would not be enough!

/Mike

Last edited by miketheman on Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Antimon



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah those note modules on the G2 are pretty nifty - thanks for that summary of your experiments.

The VG-99 has those two equivalents of your common and separate modes - works the same. I actually tried the 6-channel version first thing I did, without realising it. I hooked up the guitar to a little rompler module I have (a Kurzweil Mine Ensemble or whatever it's called), that responds to all channels. It played nicely enough, though I didn't think of checking what happened when I struck the same note on two different strings (something that can bring woe to a git->midi device that only transmits to one MIDI channel). Trying out the note module on the G2 is on my to do-list. Smile

/Stefan

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Mike,

Are you saying that with the NoteZone module you are able to get the G2 to accept 6 channel midi with each channel having separate pitchbend?

Cheers

Andy
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miketheman



Joined: Oct 12, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Hi Mike,

Are you saying that with the NoteZone module you are able to get the G2 to accept 6 channel midi with each channel having separate pitchbend?

Cheers

Andy


Hi Andy!

I sure do, well at least that the G2 accepts all 6 channels! Laughing
Haven´t had much time to find out how well the G2 handles pitchbend, less so pitchbend from all 6 channels...

NoteZone module is da shit! Laughing

/Mike

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must admit I don't think it is going o work with 6 channels of pitch-bend but would love to be proved wrong.

I went through possible ways of doing it with one of the guys from Clavia and they gave up in the end and said use two G2s. Also other attempts have been made by guys on this forum and a decent solution has not yet been found.

Cheers

Andy
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miketheman



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
I must admit I don't think it is going o work with 6 channels of pitch-bend but would love to be proved wrong.

I went through possible ways of doing it with one of the guys from Clavia and they gave up in the end and said use two G2s. Also other attempts have been made by guys on this forum and a decent solution has not yet been found.

Cheers

Andy


Andy, I would love to be the one who proved you wrong! Laughing
Anyway as I said in my earlier post, I´m not too good in all this synth stuff and all terminology. The Axon in separate mode will transmit all strings pitchbend, which is far better than using it in common mode.

However if G2 are able to deal with all that possible pitchbend information, I´m not sure. I don´t even know how to check it out!?

Anyway, being able to handle the 6 channels first, is a good start I guess? Laughing

And while I have your attention Andy, still awaiting your reply in this thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-29452.html

But it´s no hurry if you need to find time to unscrew some screws... Laughing Laughing Laughing

/Mike

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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

miketheman wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:
I must admit I don't think it is going o work with 6 channels of pitch-bend but would love to be proved wrong.

I went through possible ways of doing it with one of the guys from Clavia and they gave up in the end and said use two G2s. Also other attempts have been made by guys on this forum and a decent solution has not yet been found.

Cheers

Andy


Andy, I would love to be the one who proved you wrong! Laughing
Anyway as I said in my earlier post, I´m not too good in all this synth stuff and all terminology. The Axon in separate mode will transmit all strings pitchbend, which is far better than using it in common mode.

However if G2 are able to deal with all that possible pitchbend information, I´m not sure. I don´t even know how to check it out!?

Anyway, being able to handle the 6 channels first, is a good start I guess? Laughing

And while I have your attention Andy, still awaiting your reply in this thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-29452.html

But it´s no hurry if you need to find time to unscrew some screws... Laughing Laughing Laughing

/Mike

I use 6 channels of pitch bend in this project (see table 1 and related discussion), which I need to get working on my mac sometime this summer. (The XP to mac port never finished.)

In fact I need them because slides / chokes / hammers / pulls use pitch bend across several semitones (my pitch bend sensitivity range is + or - 12 semitones) to avoid discrete noteon events that I get with picking-hand plucks, which is how I distinguish right hand plucks to derived tempo and meter.

I think the pickup in in my Godin xtsa is a Roland pickup, not sure, cannot tell from the spec. I don't have latency problems that some people complain about on midi guitars, seems pretty accurate after some thorough use in that project. The guitar weighs a ton.

When I get that software revived I plan to couple it into an "algorithmic improviser" based on what I have learned from designing Scrabble-to-MIDI. The music potential of analyzing and then automatically improvising off of these MIDI guitar streams is much higher than it was than when I wrote this MIDI analysis software in 2005-2006.

How's your MIDI guitar projects coming along

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miketheman



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Haven´t had time/energy to look into it more than writing an e-mail recently with a "new product(/feature) suggestion" to Echo Audio, regarding for example their AudioFire12. Which can be used in stand alone mode. Which is IMHO a feature that can be quite powerful, if certain things were possible.

I´m not owning an AudioFire12 myself so I may have got it all wrong. If so please enlighten me on the subject!

When the AudioFire12 are being used in stand alone mode you can´t, AFAIK, control it via MIDI in any way. Which basically means, as I see it, that it can only be used as a sort of a installationmixer as of today (when used in stand alone mode). For me that would be a totally useless mode, because how many people WOULD connect a computer to it everytime whenever they want to alter any settings, instead of buying a analog rackmixer in the first place? If it were possible to do wireless, it wouldn´t be an issue. But as of today you have to use a regular cable connection. And without any knobs on the front (a good thing IMHO) you have to alter any settings via the computer.

However, if you COULD control it via MIDI. You would then have an easy solution for a hexaphonic breakout box with control of "string selection/muting" and/or managing the volume and routing for each string. Or to put in a other way: a rackmounted digital submixer, where a EQ may not be needed, which have no interfacescreen whatsoever (unless you hook it up to a computer), so you can mount in the back of the rackcase.
If used in stand alone mode, you would control channel volume, pan, submixes and output routing via MIDI program changes and controller changes.

For guitarists that means a product similar to a Soundsculpture GL but DSP instead of analog and IMHO more mixing possibilities to a hopefully cheaper price. Still a audio interface, but possibly a "hidden" DSP rackmixer when used in standalone mode.

I can´t see that it would be that impossible to implement such features, given that the hardware allows such software enhancements.

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