electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Windows as a music workstation
calling PC building know-it-alls!
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Blue Hell
Page 1 of 2 [33 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: calling PC building know-it-alls!
Subject description: attempting to build a music recording/producing machine
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm about to build a PC from the ground up with windows 7 home premium 64 bit. i REALLY want to enjoy computer recording again, and I've just outgrown my current setup.


here are my goals with the machine i want to build:

1. i want to be able to run up to around 30 tracks in Ableton Live 8 (mixed midi and audio tracks) with at least Izotope Ozone 4 on every one if i feel like it.

2. to be able to have a complete project (of the said MAYBE 30 tracks if i want), and be able to record vocals over it with live monitoring of effects on it, and no latency issues. the recording device for this application would be a Lexicon I-Onix u22, USB2.0.

3. record up to 14 mono audio tracks live with live, low latency monitoring of the stereo return, possibly with VSTs on each as well. for this, i would be using a Phonic Helix 18FW MKII, firewire.


needless to say these are impossible with my current XP/4G/Core2Duo laptop setup. and these "goals" may seem a little stupid, but i'm over-shooting. i just REALLY don't want to be limited if i'm recording my band or something.

I already sort of have the parts picked, but I really wanted to know ANYTHING anyone can tell me to help me accomplish this. new interface/mixer? that's fine, i'll work on it. a specific processor or motherboard? i'll try. i would just love for someone to help me out.

thank you so much to anyone that responds!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

30 tracks each with a ozone 4 on sounds pretty heavy, that plugin uses rather a lot of cpu doesn't it?

Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just did a test with 32 channels of audio each with a ozone inserted.

This is on a MacPro 8 core 2.26Ghz, 1066 MHz DDR3

48K rate.

at 128 buffer size we are looking at 4 cores maxed out

at 512 buffer size we have 3 cores maxed out.

So it looks like ozone is not too heavy on the cpu.

So for a pc an intel 4 core processor with a higher clock rate and fast memory should do you fine I would think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2478
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You might look at the more Server oriented motherboards. They have extremely fast memory interfaces. Before you buy, make sure you find some benchmark numbers that do large amounts of small blocks of data movement, and maybe IRQ latency tests, too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Or just buy something like this:

http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=935
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Based on Bob's test, he sees only 4 cores being maxed out on a 2.26 Ghz Mac Pro- which i assume based on apple specs is a Core i7 based machine. It wont be hard to pass the power of four cores on that machine considering that 2.26 Ghz core i7s aren't even sold anymore... the slowest current core i7 is the Core i7-920 processor at 2.66 Ghz, running about $280 for the CPU. The next step up is the Core i7-930 at 2.8 Ghz ($295), and the next after that is 3.06 Ghz at almost double the cost. (Note, you need an i7 that uses the LGA 1366 socket with thee-channel DDR3, not the LGA 1156 version.)

Though you *could* overclock the Core i7-920 i would highly caution against doing that on any system considered a workstation. Put in 6 GB of memory and use a 64-bit operating system, Ableton will catch on eventually.

I would say "graphics card doesn't matter" but we may start seeing effects plugins using OpenCL and running on the graphics card.... so something moderate at least.

_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The MacPro processors are Intel Xeon E5520 Processors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, the only difference on the Xeon 55xx series is they have the slightly faster interconnect of the higher-end Core i7 (i.e. the Core i7 965 etc)
_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And you can have more than one of them, always a nice idea Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, that requires a workstation motherboard....

Of course you could buy a 6-core core i7 as well...

_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep the 6 core i7 is a great processor for a DAW, 3xs do a 6 core box as well: http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=1118

Or a some Xeon 7500s they are nice, I'm working on a system at the moment with 16 blades each with two 8 core 7500s, 256 cores in total to replace an ageing SGI cluster.

A supercomputer in a rack, you have to love Intel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been working with a Xeon 5550 machine from HP as a review unit and let me tell you, they fly... trying to coem up with a way to run that box into the ground has been... taxing.
_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So we won't be recommending AMD then Smile

I must admit my PC building days are gone, would it still work out cheaper to build your own or just buy one nowadays?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At this end of the performance spectrum, AMD only barely competes, especially since some of the PCI sound and DSP cards don't get along well with chipsets for AMD processors.

It still come s out a little cheaper to build, but buying prebuilt comes with a warranty- and to get a dual-socket PC, its going to be a 'workstation' and thus come with nice things like 24/7 telephone tech support and on-site repairs...

_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, that's a lot of info in there...

one thing that did catch my attention was what Ashe37 said. would you mind explaining a little why i would need a 1366 socket i7? it just so happens that the one i have picked out is 1156, and the motherboard is also, this sort of messes up my entire build...

thank you guys for all of the replies. i'm still trying to process a lot of it...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Socket 1156 has dual-channel memory, socket 1366 is three-channel memory. There is a performance hit for losing the memory bandwidth of the third channel.
_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2478
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is a performance hit, but not as much. The newer Lynnfield/1156 chips have an improved cache system. Unless you are looking at the 1366 server chips, the 870 outperforms almost every quad-core 1366 device out there.

The 1156 also has the graphics PCI-e built on-chip, rather than going through a northbridge to get to the graphics chip. That's less latency on those PCI-e slots, as well as the rest of the system. I wonder if an audio or firewire card could go there?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Or move over to the dark side http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro?mco=OTY2ODEwNw
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
There is a performance hit, but not as much. The newer Lynnfield/1156 chips have an improved cache system. Unless you are looking at the 1366 server chips, the 870 outperforms almost every quad-core 1366 device out there.

The 1156 also has the graphics PCI-e built on-chip, rather than going through a northbridge to get to the graphics chip. That's less latency on those PCI-e slots, as well as the rest of the system. I wonder if an audio or firewire card could go there?


The 1156 also has limited PCI-E bandwidth off-chip. All of the PCI-E is handled on the cpu, not on the northbridge. Many boards using it expand that by using a PCI-E to PCI-E bridge, which gives you more slots but the same amount of bandwidth. Really only a concern if you're going to run two graphics cards...

_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you guys for your help. it's sort of difficult though, when there are so many options. i figured it may be easier this way: i'll post the build i have in mind, then you can make suggestions based on it instead.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/sectors/wishlist/wishlist.asp?WishId=9FC6CA4F-0EBA-48C2-A2F1-A592A243BA5B&SRCCODE=WEBWISH

(please let me know if this link doesn't work)


also, i'm planning on doubling the memory that's on the list. (i can't add more than 1 of one thing on the wish list...)


please let me know of any suggestions you have or if you notice anything that may not work. thank you guys again, and i really appreciate the help. i'm going at this totally alone with very limited knowledge, except for you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wouldn't put a wifi card in it...

Also, if you're going to use a 64-bit OS, why not put more than 4 GB RAM?

_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
choklitlove



Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 144
Location: Indiana
Audio files: 17

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

choklitlove wrote:

also, i'm planning on doubling the memory that's on the list. (i can't add more than 1 of one thing on the wish list...)


when i order, the 4G item in the cart will have quantity 2. so it will be 2Gx4 when said and done. 8G.

and unfortunately, i will need a wireless card. i will be disabling the card all the time while working though, so it shouldn't affect things too much. and i know a lot of people like to separate the music/home computer, but i won't have that luxury. it will need to get on the internet as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have my music machine on the network as well, but its a wired LAN.
_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BobTheDog



Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 3830
Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It is also worth remembering that DDR3 memory needs to be in sets of three to get any speed improvement over DDR2 memory..

So if you are using 1GB cards, you need 3 or 6 for example.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ashe37



Joined: Oct 31, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Technically true, but socket 1156 uses memory in pairs, not in threes. Its only dual channel.
_________________
E-Mu e6400 Ultra -Ensoniq VFX & ESQm
Korg M3, EMX-1 , MS2000BR
Roland MKS-50, Juno 106 Alesis Micron
Waldorf Blofeld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Blue Hell
Page 1 of 2 [33 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Windows as a music workstation
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
mps board

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use