electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Les Hall's Projects including eChucK
Something I have been working on
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Inventor
Page 2 of 3 [53 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The good news is the boards are in Alaska, so I should see them by the end of the week or perhaps early next week.

The first 4 prototypes with be finished by the end of the following week, and the code base will be refined further. I would have to say I have nothing more than a basic framework for the code, but the I/O will not be that difficult to finish as SD card read/write are complete, midi I/O is mostly ready, but of course untested. Smile The synthesis engine will be something I am looking forward to developing.

I will post some photos of the boards when they arrive, and after they are populated.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Way cool dio, looks like you're making excellent progress!

Les
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Way cool dio, looks like you're making excellent progress!

Les


So far it is looking great on paper, the moment of truth approaches very soon. However, I am very excited about the possibilities. I have 90% of the parts I need and I am waiting on parts from Sparkfun, they were the only supplier I could find for the micro switches for the land pattern I designed the board around. This is not a big deal as the switch is only for reset.

I am really interested in finding out how the DAC performs. I have already designed a new board with a lowpass if there is too much aliasing but the DAC of choice is quite robust in its feature set, and includes 8x oversampling. Also I want to see how many voices I can achieve with the Pic32, as I am hoping I can get decent polyphony, from just one chip.

I guess what I am really saying is WOOHOO! finally at the next stage of the design.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dio, do you have any updates on your project? It's been a month since you posted about it.

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure do.

Errors.

There were some serious errors on the first run of boards, due to incorrect pad sizes and spacing. The TQFP-100 I used and the TQFP-100 Microchip uses are completely different. So I have taken the month to redesign the board.

The board now has +5/-5 and +3.3v power, I am designing an amplifier section which will be suitable for high-pass or low-pass in the 5th order. And the DAC will be connected correctly this time. The I2C connector was connected to general i/o and not the I2C interface on the PIC. That error I should have caught the first time.

The second version has much larger pads for accessing every additional pin on the pic. With spacing which would allow for a pin header to be soldered to the extra pins.

The prototype area is much larger including two additional areas on the front and back side of the board. And the pads in each area are larger which will make it wasy to hand solder parts onto them.

There have been general optimizations across the entire board, better layout, gound planes for 5v and 3v to separate them. I am still trying to decide if I should plan to use decoupling capacitors on the board but I think the design won't require this.

So thats what I have done so far. The next run of boards should be on within the next few weeks. I have ordered more DAC's from Mouser, as DigiKey is out, and the remaining parts have arived from there suppliers. So things are still moving along although a litter slower, as I am taking more care in designing the second run.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good to hear the news, dio. I am also doing a second run of the board that I am developing at the moment. One question I have is: "Why do you think the board doesn't need decoupling capacitors?

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well good question and the only answer would be that I have been able to get decent results with out them.

I have plenty of bypass caps on the board to smooth power out, but as for decoupling I have never really needed them.

In the past I have used decoupling only for audio inputs and a few supplies I did not want directly connected. Whats your advice Inventor, I know you have spent a great deal of time in the field and your recommendation is appreciated.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, it's a terminology thing. I've always heard the power supply caps called decoupling caps. I thought you were not using supply bypass caps when you said you didn't need decoupling caps. My mistake I suppose. Sounds like you have the situation well in hand. Good luck!

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
electri-fire



Joined: Jul 26, 2006
Posts: 535
Location: breda nl
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 4

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dioioib wrote:
The second version has much larger pads for accessing every additional pin on the pic. With spacing which would allow for a pin header to be soldered to the extra pins.

The prototype area is much larger including two additional areas on the front and back side of the board. And the pads in each area are larger which will make it wasy to hand solder parts onto them.


Nice!

dioioib wrote:
I am still trying to decide if I should plan to use decoupling capacitors on the board but I think the design won't require this.


Better safe than sorry. Adding extra hardware might introduce oscillations into the power lines. If you have some place where the +V and ground are adjacent all it takes is two extra solderpads.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So a little update. The new boards are finally redesigned. I am looking forward to placing another prototype order this week. I have decided to rework the prototype area again and adjust the pad size making them larger and easier to work with by hand; in addition the area was expanded.


pic32_april5-2010.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  138.23 KB
 Viewed:  125 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

pic32_april5-2010.png



_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Prototype run #2 just sent today.

I am finally satisfied with the board design for the second run. This one is looking good. I'm looking forward to getting these error (fingers crossed) free boards. I will keep everyone posted.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good news, dio! I hope your boards work perfectly! As I mentioned in chat, there has been some interest expressed by someone who is planning to offer a new line of unique modular products. Your board is really cool because hopefully we can set it up so that a customer can download a variety of different program selections to reconfigure your module.

Of course, you've got to get the boards working, write a USB bootstrap loader, and start coding up those programs first so there is still a way to go on your project. My commendations in your persistence on this project, I really think it will sell well.

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok I need to confer with the community here. I just got the quote back for the next prototype run. We are looking at an increase in cost by about 2x because of the new specs. I might be able to retune the boards but we are looking at fairly tight specs with all of the stuff crammed on there and it being 4-layers increases the price too.

The pricing of the boards I was shooting for between $50-100 but if I order quantity I am sure the price will not reach anywhere near $100. What do we think?

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Dan Lavin



Joined: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Spring Lake, Mi, USA
Audio files: 21

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are you saying the protoboards are for $100-200 and in volume much less than $100? If that's so, I don't think that's out of line. But i know a number of folks here might have a little trouble with the proto pricing.
_________________
Synth DIY since 1977!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

right now I am talking about prototype price. My target price for a complete unit was intended to be around $100-$150(CAD) populated. Or at least that was the objective. With an increase of double to board cost alone I would likely be out of my target by far too much. I was contacted by the PCB manufacturer and I might be able to reduce a majority of the cost by increasing via size and changing trace width. The tight specifications are driving up the cost. So I have decided to change them, I was shocked by the price to be honest, but after finding out what the issues were I realized hey we can easily change that. There are only 201 vias on the new board and most of the parts are SMD so there is some room to work. The area of real issue is the PIC32 area where the pad spacing is very tight to begin with, after adding bypass caps and vias to he underside of the board we are left with little remaining space. This will delay the prototype run but reduce cost. From the beginning my objectives were affordability, modularity and flexibility. I do not want to lose site of that.

Thank you for the input.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I feel that cost is a critical factor. Anything you can do to reduce cost will help greatly. Is there other packaging for the PIC32? Can we move all parts to the top of the board? I don't really see the need for the prototyping area really, as few people will make use of it - would removing or reducing the prototype area(s) help lower cost?

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor, I wish there was another package for the TQFP100 with a larger pin spacing but as it turns out there is not. That was the major error on the first run of boards, I had to rebuild the board in a rush and used a standard TQFP100 pad spacing of 2mm and the PIC32 uses 1mm. Lesson learned.

The adjusted files are at the board house, and I am awaiting a response.

I understand the idea of removing the prototype area. However, I am going to keep it; the board will benefit from the area and stoke creativity and tinkering with the hardware. As the board is designed right now the prototype area is only filling void space, and this is really not the major cost increase on the board. Additionally, I have considered the idea of using the space to fill out the I2C bus, we can connect up to 128 devices if my memory serves me, and really the board only uses about 3. So if required the area can be used for that type of expansion.

The board does have a majority of the components on the top side with the exception of a few capacitors. The DSP on the underside is not really ready yet but I can not justify moving that to the upper side because it will increase the board beyond the desirable size.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK dio, sounds like you've thought things out well and I know you're on top of your game! I Hope all goes well with this run of boards...

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This run I have taken more care. There might be something I am overlooking but I have done everything from a dry run for placement, double-triple-quadruple check of the pin connections, although I might check them one more time. So I am feeling good. Your input is always appreciated though, I enjoy questioning the design and why I have done things as such. There is always room for improvement.
_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
rubendelacosta



Joined: Dec 25, 2005
Posts: 151
Location: lisbon

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

looking good!
can't wait to see this board working/playing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok so after retooling the board the cost has dropped on the prototype so it is in a more reasonable price point for the run. I'm going to review the board one more time and see if there are any other cost saving tweaks I can do. But the setup fee has dropped about $100-200 so I do not think there is much more room to go. Worth a shot though.
_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Order has been placed so now we wait...

In the mean time I have two other projects I need to direct attention two. But I should have the boards in about two weeks. I will keep everyone posted.

_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
dioioib



Joined: May 23, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good news is the new boards have arrived. I will be populating the boards over the next few days when time permits. They look great and I have a feeling they are going to work great. Problem is I have to solder SMT by hand which can take a little time and finesse. However, as it stands we are looking at getting the code base working over the next few months. After which time I will work on control surfaces for the device and other doodads.
_________________
________________________________
dioioib
________________________________
Nord Modular G2, Electron Monomachine, Access Virus TI Pølar, Korg M3-88 (expanded), Korg ER-1, Akai MPC500 (expanded), Yamaha DX7 (!E Card Expansion), Yamaha DX7 (Sylogic Expansion), MidiBox SID 6582, x0xb0x, Yamaha SK10


http://dioioib.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's good to hear dio, hope your boards work flawlessly!

Les

_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Taylor



Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 170
Location: us

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is really interesting. I'm really looking forward to hearing how it's coming.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Inventor
Page 2 of 3 [53 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Les Hall's Projects including eChucK
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use