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Automageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2010 Posts: 7 Location: London
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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:19 am Post subject:
Starting up with 80 HP Subject description: Building my first modular |
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I have been planning my first modular for a bit now, trying to fit my space and budget limits, and I've come out with 3 possible systems.
All of the will be based on the MFB 84 HP frame (with power and midi/cv included, so the limit is 80HP)
I'm aiming for something that will allow me some flexibility, similar to U-he ACE modular software.
Can you please also tell me if these options would be good to go and would work when the output is routed directed to a normal desktop mixer or audio card?
PLAN A:
- MFB Kraftzwerge module
- Doepfer a-121 multimode filter
- Doepfer a-138b mixer
PLAN B:
- Doepfer a-111-5 (dark energy module)
- Doepfer a-121 multimode filter
- Doepfer a-131 VCA
- Doepfer a-110 VCO
- Doepfer a-138b mixer
- Doepfer a-140 ADSR
(10 units left to fill, maybe with a noise generator A-118 or distortion a-136)
PLAN C:
- Analogue Solutions VCO
- Analogue Solutions VCO-RM (VCO with ring modulator)
- Analogue Solutions Multi-filter with VCA
- Analogue Solutions LP filter with VCA
- Analogue Solutions mixer/pre amp
- Analogue Solutions mixer MX61
- MFB dual ADSR
- MFB Dual LFO
Which one would you suggest?
I liek best B and C, C would be more "clean", B would take less space and have more room for growth. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject:
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I decided to go for the larger dotcom/moog format modules. Obviously far less mobile. However, some stuff never change no matter what format you use.
1. You will not stop buying modules.
2. Your first module layout usually tries to fit a lot of boutique weirdness into one cab.
3. Your first module layout will not be your last.
4. It is quite common that whatever you configure at first you´ll soon discover you only have 2/3 of the number of modules you need in order to get a sensible workspace and workflow.
One very good advice is to aim less for the tasty and weird boutique modules and more in the direction of a classical modular synth with all the right utility modules in place. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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EdisonRex
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Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 4579 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:51 am Post subject:
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Quote: |
One very good advice is to aim less for the tasty and weird boutique modules and more in the direction of a classical modular synth with all the right utility modules in place.
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This is an elementary learning experience. The corrollary to this is if you decide to build a modular out of entirely boutique modules, it will cost 4x more than it should and have about 1/2 the actual utility. The cabinet of boutique modules should be your second or third cabinet, not the first. _________________ Garret: It's so retro.
EGM: What does retro mean to you?
Parker: Like, old and outdated.
Home,My Studio,and another view |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:33 am Post subject:
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Well surely the odd boutique module is good to have.
I have just started building a modular and my favourite two modules so far are probably boutique modules, the Livewire AFG and the Flame Tame Machine.
The one piece of advice I would have as a beginner in all this is to get more multiples and attenuators than you ever think you would need. Also some offset/attenuators. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:52 am Post subject:
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The Flame Tame Machine is in fact a utility module. The boutique flavor comes from throwing in that beat looper and naming the product Tame Machine. The traditional modular utility philosophy would of course suggest to stuff the "beat looper" into a separate module. The synthesizers.com 96x sequencer range is a great example as to how the utility philosophy works. The modules in the Clavia Nord Modular range and the Tassman softsynth are great examples too.
That being said, the Tame Machine seems to be vey nice.
The AFG is a brilliant thing too.
Trivia
I´ve noticed that a popular shopping trend is that the module list kinda equals the architecture of some of the hyped vintage monosynths ( and often a combination of several of these - possibly caused by the perceived urgent need to cover maximum terrain ). IMO, it makes little sense to recreate the architecture of 2-5 well known monophonic synths. That kinda makes the move to modular synthesis a bit pointless. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:18 am Post subject:
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I must admit I just equate boutique to expensive!
Or anything from here: www.postmodular.co.uk |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:26 am Post subject:
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That too..
Safari doesn´t show the postmodular page.. lotsa source there though.. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:28 am Post subject:
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Here is what I have so far:
Voyager with a VX-351
Doepfer Dark Energy
Moog MP-201 Pedal (very neat device)
Oscillators
======
Doepfer 1-110
Live wire AFG
TipTop Z300 mk ii
Doepfer A-118 Noise/random
Filters
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Doepfer A-106-5 SEM
Doepfer A-124 VCF5 Wasp
Utitlty?
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Doepfer A-131 VCA
Doepfer A-140 ADSR
Doepfer A-147 VC LOF
Doepfer A-135-1 VC Mixer
Doepfer A-138c Polarizing mixer
3 X Doepfer A183-1 Dual Attenuators
3 X Doepfer A-180 Multiples
2 X Doepfer A-183-2 Offset Attenuators
Doepfer A-148 Dual S&H
Tiptop Z8000 matrix sequencer
Flame Tame Machine |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:29 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | That too..
Safari doesn´t show the postmodular page.. lotsa source there though.. |
Strange, working in safari here!
Try http://postmodular.co.uk/home |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:38 am Post subject:
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BobTheDog wrote: | elektro80 wrote: | That too..
Safari doesn´t show the postmodular page.. lotsa source there though.. |
Strange, working in safari here!
Try http://postmodular.co.uk/home |
It pops out in Fur-epoxy.. possible some addons that chokes on the page source in Safari. No big deal. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:40 am Post subject:
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BobTheDog wrote: | Here is what I have so far: |
Seems like a good list.
How many of the VCAs and the ADSRs do you have? _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:50 am Post subject:
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Only one of each in the rack.
For adsrs I have another 3 from the Dark/energy and voyager via the VX-351.
Also the MP201 can have a total of 4 cv outs which can be adsrs but only triggered from midi, also they can be lfos, noise or S&H from noise. It is a useful device!
VCAs I definitely need more of. I was thinking of getting a couple of A-132-3 modules. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:04 am Post subject:
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Cool! _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Automageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2010 Posts: 7 Location: London
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:22 am Post subject:
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In my list I don't have any boutique or weird module, I'm trying to stick to the basics until I know more/have more experience, so for my first modular I'm trying to stick to some basic/flexible architecture, 3 VCO, 2 filters, 2 ADSR, VCA and distortion.
So I think I'll start with:
- MFB Triple VCO
- Doepfer A-121 and A-120 filters
- Doepfer A-131 dual VCA
- Doepfer A-136 Distortion (As I plan to use this for some heavy drum processing);
- MFB dual ADSR
- MFB dual LFO
- Doepfer A-138b Mixer
My big question is:
Do I actually need a mixer on the modular or can I route the output of the VCA directly into my soundcard/desktop mixer?
If I don't need a mixing module, I can add some multiples... |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:57 am Post subject:
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Automageddon wrote: | In my list I don't have any boutique or weird module. |
You are quite right. I didn´t really comment on your list, my bad.
Mixers? well.. yes.. you do.
You see the mixer modules are meant for mixing control voltages or audio signals or what have you. You will need mixer modules and most likely you will find it sensible to have 2 or 3.
You probably already know that the signals in a modular synth are far hotter.. in the sense.. louder.. than ordinary audio signals that you would handle with an ordinary console. This means that you will need to amplify signals piped into the modular synth from external sources. This also means that if you want to say process the output from VCOs using external effects and then introduce this processed signal back into the modular synth you will need to 1) dampen the output signal and 2) amplify the signal sent back into the synth. The traditional mixer modules won´t quite do this so you will need something like
http://synthesizers.com/q118.html
http://synthesizers.com/q125.html
http://www.cyndustries.com/modules_anything.cfm
I´m pretty sure Doepfer makes similar modules. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:22 am Post subject:
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Regarding the mixer modules.. you probably won´t "need" to many such modules right away considering that you are building a basic synth first it seems. It seems you can solve a lot of tasks with the modules directly.
The 138.. blurb from the Doepfer website
Quote: | Module A-138 is a four channel mixer, which can be used with either control voltages or audio signals. Each of the four inputs has an attenuator, and there's a master attenuator, so that the mixer can be used at the end of the audio chain - ie. it can be used to interface directly with an external mixer, amplifier, etc.
The module can be supplied in two versions:
A-138 a: potentiometers with linear response, so especially suitable for control voltage mixing.
A-138 b: potentiometers with logarithmic response, so especially suitable for audio signal mixing. |
_________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Automageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2010 Posts: 7 Location: London
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:34 am Post subject:
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Then it looks like I can replace the mixer with an external input/signal follower module like this one:
http://www.doepfer.de/a119.htm
I'm so sure this will be the beginning of an expensive downfall; that's why I'm glad I'm starting with only 80HP, this way when I'll want to expand I'll have to invest in another rack and that should prevent me for a while... |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:47 am Post subject:
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Expensive downfall.. indeed. Oh yes..
I´m not familiar with the Doepfer module sizes and cab sizes, but it always seems smart to consider that what you buy at first as your starter system soon evolves into just being at best 2/3s of what makes sense like a week or 4 after you have set it up. The PSU and the cab size should allow you some add-ons. So my general advice is to get a bigger cab and a PSU that will comfortably power a larger system.
BTW, in many cases it makes sense to mount event generators and sequencers and such into a separate cabinet but from your list I noticed that you aren´t quite going there yet. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Dougster
Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 272 Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:55 am Post subject:
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Automageddon wrote: | I'm so sure this will be the beginning of an expensive downfall; that's why I'm glad I'm starting with only 80HP, this way when I'll want to expand I'll have to invest in another rack and that should prevent me for a while... |
See sig...
I'm at just over 100 MOTM and Blacet modules and I'm not sure I see an end. _________________ Once you start down the modular path, forever will it dominate your destiny!
Every DIY person should own a copy of Electronotes: http://electronotes.netfirms.com
Blue LEDs are evil. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:59 am Post subject:
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Dougster wrote: | I'm at just over 100 MOTM and Blacet modules and I'm not sure I see an end. |
The Truth _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:01 am Post subject:
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It will of course make sense to distribute the system across several cabs when the system really starts to grow, but IMO a starter system should have some space left in order to allow for the next stage.. _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Dougster
Joined: Sep 20, 2005 Posts: 272 Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:08 am Post subject:
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elektro80 wrote: | Dougster wrote: | I'm at just over 100 MOTM and Blacet modules and I'm not sure I see an end. |
The Truth |
Yeah, Larry Hendry warned me... But did I listen??? _________________ Once you start down the modular path, forever will it dominate your destiny!
Every DIY person should own a copy of Electronotes: http://electronotes.netfirms.com
Blue LEDs are evil. |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:10 am Post subject:
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I think the general rule here is that you are not supposed to listen. Works every time. Size matters!
_________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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Automageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2010 Posts: 7 Location: London
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:24 am Post subject:
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I'm really excited about making my first modular, but the addictive side of it really really worries me.
I was 100% sure I was fine with a single 84 HP line, now I'm already looking for a double line, just in case...
I'll keep my eyes peeled for a rack on Ebay and other websites, the initial cost for the case is the most worrying.
Is it difficult to make your own rack/case?
Could I buy a normal fx rack case and adapt it to hold modules? |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003 Posts: 21959 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:49 am Post subject:
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It´s isn´t too hard to make your own cabinet. It all depends on the tools you have. Aren´t there some kind of rack format frames for the Dopfer modules ? You first get the frames and then build a box to hold the frames. Alternatively you just install the frames in a standard rack box/case. Only problem with this is that most of the larger rack boxes are way deeper than what you need.
On the other hand, t is kinda cool to also have rack efx units like delays and compressors and stuff in the cab as well.
This is such a frame for the 5U Moog/dotcom format:
http://synthesizers.com/cabinets.html#qcr8 _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
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