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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » fonik's place
Voltage Controlled OpAmp RingMod (Modulator)
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LektroiD



Joined: Aug 23, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To my ear, it sounds more like it is mixing the signals, rather than multiplying them.. There is always a signal bleeding from both modulator and carrier inputs. My understanding of a ring modulator, is that both the carrier and modulator should remain silent until they are modulated by each other?

Also there's no calibration procedure in the docs, perhaps this is where I'm going wrong?

First I tried two square waves, and offset the modulator frequency. Secondly I used a drum machine for the carrier. It certainly modulates, but doesn't sound anything like a classic ring circuit. Maybe I'm doing something wrong here? I will do some more experimenting

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adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
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Location: united kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pcbs arrived. cheers matthias. Very Happy Very Happy
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Board made it to NYC, thanks!
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emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Frederick, MD

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My wife tells me the boards have arrived. Thanks!
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softfin



Joined: Oct 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A pair of red boards arrived today, salut
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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 1212
Location: Kansas City, Mo USA
Audio files: 29

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LektroiD wrote:
To my ear, it sounds more like it is mixing the signals, rather than multiplying them.. There is always a signal bleeding from both modulator and carrier inputs. My understanding of a ring modulator, is that both the carrier and modulator should remain silent until they are modulated by each other?

Also there's no calibration procedure in the docs, perhaps this is where I'm going wrong?

First I tried two square waves, and offset the modulator frequency. Secondly I used a drum machine for the carrier. It certainly modulates, but doesn't sound anything like a classic ring circuit. Maybe I'm doing something wrong here? I will do some more experimenting


If either of your signals has a DC offset, then you will get bleedthru.

You want to be sure that the CV input voltage is not causing a DC offset. Also, you want to be sure that your input signals have no DC offset.

A square wave that is 0v to 10v will have (in effect) a 5v DC offset.

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LektroiD wrote:
Also there's no calibration procedure in the docs, perhaps this is where I'm going wrong?

will follow.

for now:
if you don't have a scope - don't apply any signal to any input. turn all pots down. turn input 1 pot up (still no signal at the input!), use trimpot to get 0V at test point TP1. then same for 2nd input.
if you have a scope - apply a signal to channel 1, input pot all up. use trimpot to move signal centered around 0V.

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Danno Gee Ray



Joined: Sep 25, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Got my boards today as well.
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jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Arrived! Thanks!!!
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bugfight



Joined: Aug 02, 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Arlington, TX USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gots mine, thanks again again!
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a100user



Joined: Oct 28, 2003
Posts: 147
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boards arrived

Thanks Matthias

David
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

boards arrived!
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Dego



Joined: Apr 22, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

got mine last week Smile
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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My board arrived, too. Look forward to building this. Thanks!
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

boards arrived in oz thanks mathias Smile
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Adam-V



Joined: Jan 29, 2007
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Location: Australia
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My boards have arrived too Matthias. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Adam-V

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slo



Joined: Feb 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Board arrived in Canada

George
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jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LektroiD wrote:
I'm now wondering how to do a 5U for this, If I do standard MOTM 1U, I'll have nowhere to put the extra socket, and it seems a little wasteful to use a 2U panel just to accommodate 1 extra socket. I may have to use smaller rotary knobs and place the sockets next to each of those
Any other 5U guys out there building this?


I'm going to do a 2u and fill out the space with either one of Nicolas' simple VCOs or simple LFOs, as either would be useful on its own, as well as in conjunction with a VC Ring.
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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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Location: Kansas City, Mo USA
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Powered up the VC RingMod last night Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Powered it up and got sound out of it! ** Hooray!! **

Both VCA's work ok. The Carrier signal is ok. The Modulator signal is clipped though ... so, I have some troubleshooting to do. I can already see that this will be a fine addition to my synthesizer.

I'll post a pic once it is finished -- as tempting as it is to post a pic, I wait until everything works to spec before I do the show 'n tell thing. Wink

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emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 669
Location: Frederick, MD

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Powered up the VC RingMod last night Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
I'll post a pic once it is finished

And sound samples!
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3723
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Powered up the VC RingMod last night Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
Both VCA's work ok. The Carrier signal is ok. The Modulator signal is clipped though ... so, I have some troubleshooting to do.

does it clip at the testpiont TP2, or does it clip at the output? latter would be the feature, not a bug.

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mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I still want the euro version Matthias Smile
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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Powered up the VC RingMod last night Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
kkissinger wrote:
Both VCA's work ok. The Carrier signal is ok. The Modulator signal is clipped though ... so, I have some troubleshooting to do.

does it clip at the testpiont TP2, or does it clip at the output? latter would be the feature, not a bug.


Thank you for your comment. The waveform is not clipped at TP2 and TP1.

I checked and re-checked the polarity of the diodes and verified that the op amp is working correctly. Thank you for verifying that the module is working to spec.

I will get some sound examples up soon. Stay tuned...

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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: VC Ring Modulator MP3 Demo Track Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just recorded a demo and a short improv with this module.

One adjusts the signal levels (the carrier and modulator -- X and Y) to null out the primary input signals.

Since the Voltage control varies the X and Y levels, external voltage can control the nulling effect ("bleed through") and effect some amplitude modulation, too.

I labeled the inputs X and Y to match the Aries labeling (used for the Aries Balanced Modulator).


PB170008a.JPG
 Description:
The VC Ring Mod didn't utilize all of the Aries 9x3 panel, so I added a separate Gain/Bias function to the module.
 Filesize:  1.29 MB
 Viewed:  149 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

PB170008a.JPG



PB170009a.JPG
 Description:
This view shows the VC Ring Mod PCB
 Filesize:  1.6 MB
 Viewed:  121 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

PB170009a.JPG



PB170011a.JPG
 Description:
This view shows the Gain/Level Shifter PCB.
 Filesize:  1.56 MB
 Viewed:  125 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

PB170011a.JPG



VC Ring Modulator Demo.mp3
 Description:
Demonstration and short improv with the Fonitronics mh31 Voltage Controlled Ring Modulator

Download
 Filename:  VC Ring Modulator Demo.mp3
 Filesize:  5.78 MB
 Downloaded:  418 Time(s)


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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow!
that demonstration is awesome!

BTW did you try the VCmodulator for control voltages as well?

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