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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
CE-1 clone ?
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1109
Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm of course interested in whatever Jurgen comes up with, but have a couple of thoughts to add-

I'm looking at the Roland SH-5 filter schematic, and note that there are 7136s on both the input and the output! Upper left and upper right:

http://flickr.com/photos/11165691@N03/1372721139/sizes/l/

I imagine that it would sound better without them Shocked

And besides forgetting the compansion, I wonder if Behringer also cut out the high-pass filtration that makes the C (and D) only swirl the harmonics of the input (Korg's Crossover Chorus algo as well). And any cross-patching of the EQ'd signal path as Jurgen has detailed in the D...
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
I'm of course interested in whatever Jurgen comes up with, but have a couple of thoughts to add-

I'm looking at the Roland SH-5 filter schematic, and note that there are 7136s on both the input and the output! Upper left and upper right:

http://flickr.com/photos/11165691@N03/1372721139/sizes/l/

I imagine that it would sound better without them Shocked

And besides forgetting the compansion, I wonder if Behringer also cut out the high-pass filtration that makes the C (and D) only swirl the harmonics of the input (Korg's Crossover Chorus algo as well). And any cross-patching of the EQ'd signal path as Jurgen has detailed in the D...


I thought you love the sound of the SH5 ?!

Anyway:
My first thought about these special amplifier chips in the CE-1 was to just replace them with more common opamps.
Then I learned they might make a difference in sound, and bought a couple of them to find a (probably discrete) circuit to emulate them.
But then again I personally do *not* like the CE-1's overdrive behaviour - too harsh to my ears, and so unlike the smooth sound that chorus creates when not overloaded - and if this has to do with the TA7136, I better won't waste my time on making an exact replacement circuit for these chips.

So ... how about this:

I'll allow two options on the PCB. One with a standard opamp design (might be TL071, or RC4558, or NE5534), and one with the footprint for the original TA7136 chips. Then everybody can decide for himself whether to buy a 7136 alongside with the MN3002, or to use a more common opamp.

Sounds good?

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1109
Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

(Of course the Dimension C has no stereo cross-coupling) Smile

I love the SH5, but as you say, and I agree completely, the CE-1 does -not- overload in anything resembling an attractive manner. I say lose the Roland chip and make it clean.

However, dirt in a filter is another thing altogether. I have no idea if it's helping or hindering the tone of the unit! The gain is set IIRC so that you don't overload the filter circuit with the two oscillators at maximum level, so I don't know what it might sound like if even 072s were to replace the 7136s...end of tangent, back to -your- thread!
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PrimateSynthesis



Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 69
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
In fact, I think of making something like a Juno Chorus PCB, too.


I would definitely buy one of those.
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johans121



Joined: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Memphis, TN (USA)

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PrimateSynthesis wrote:
jhaible wrote:
In fact, I think of making something like a Juno Chorus PCB, too.


I would definitely buy one of those.


+4
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jeffery girlsbottom



Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 27
Location: OZ

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi, is this/these chorus projects still happening?
i would very much like to have a juno chorus, a Dim D, and a ce-1.

cheers
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jeffery girlsbottom wrote:
hi, is this/these chorus projects still happening?
i would very much like to have a juno chorus, a Dim D, and a ce-1.

cheers


Yes - and there will be a lot more to come, now that my hobby has turned into a part-time job. I just can say _when_. What I can say is that the next chorus will be the Subtle Chorus (which allows a true Dim D mode if you have the vintage chips), and this will hopefully (!) be available this year.

The BBD board of this project *should* be able to do an approximation of a Juno 6 or JX-3P chorus as well, albeit how close an emulation I cannot tell yet. (This may or may not give reason for a dedicated, extra project to cover this rangge.)

The CE-1 is another thing altogether - I certainly plan to make that a dedicated project of its own.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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nicolai



Joined: Jan 08, 2009
Posts: 1
Location: argentina

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello, I'm starting to make a ce1 clone, but i've found some problems:
1) two (slightly) different schematics.
2) some component values are hard to read.
3) don't know the name of the fet's.

I'm making the pcb with the proteus, if anyone is interested when it's finished and tested, I post it here to download...but these problems are stopping me from finishing it.

Also i'm doing a version to use a SAD512 that I already had...some bias resistors and caps are omitted, but the pcb should be very very similar.
Here in Argentina, the MN3002 are sold about 25 USD (a lot of money for a student) Crying or Very sad

Glad to find this forum...bye!
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StephenGiles



Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nicolai wrote:
Hello, I'm starting to make a ce1 clone, but i've found some problems:
1) two (slightly) different schematics.
2) some component values are hard to read.
3) don't know the name of the fet's.

I'm making the pcb with the proteus, if anyone is interested when it's finished and tested, I post it here to download...but these problems are stopping me from finishing it.

Also i'm doing a version to use a SAD512 that I already had...some bias resistors and caps are omitted, but the pcb should be very very similar.
Here in Argentina, the MN3002 are sold about 25 USD (a lot of money for a student) Crying or Very sad

Glad to find this forum...bye!


Ask Cristina to sell one of her houses (8 is it??) and buy you the BBDs!!
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urban.osterman



Joined: Jan 12, 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject: CE-1 Clone with cleaner OP_Amps? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all , Is this still happening? I mean some sort of CE-1 Clone. I am interested for sure.
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haima



Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm keen, if you get around to it JH... Cool
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