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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
MATRIX or NO matrix???
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SPIKE the Percussionist



Joined: Jun 06, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: MATRIX or NO matrix???
Subject description: is there more features by having a matrix panel on a modular synth
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hi guys!

i have been wondering about this for a while...

here are two synths that i like a lot.

one is the Tereshkova: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~concuss/

the other is the Vostok: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~concuss/

is it better to have one that has a Matrix panel like the Vostok or...

not have the Matrix panel and get these extras as listed on the website:

Differences between Vostok and Tereshkova;

They are identical in every respect, except with the Tereshkova, instead of the Matrix panel and VU meter you get extra;

LFO

2 VCAs

2 Multiples

----

i know they are both very useful but is it more fun to have the extras or the Matrix panel?

opinions??

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, the only thing the pin matrix gets you is patching without patchcords.

If you're not worried about patchcords taking up space, get the extra bits on the Tereshkova.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
Well, the only thing the pin matrix gets you is patching without patchcords.

If you're not worried about patchcords taking up space, get the extra bits on the Tereshkova.


Paul is right. Pin Matrices are a stupid idea. They're fiddly and laborious to set up and unless done properly, suffer from crosstalk and impedance problems- ie you are likely to not only pick up unwanted modulation from other sources, but you also get the situation where things change every time you put another pin in. AND, they cost the earth. Stupid idea.

If you want a pin system, then go bananas! (banana sockets of course! Very Happy )

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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've tried both methods and I prefer patch matrices, they allow multiple connections from the same in/out much more easily than patch cables and the wires don't get in the way of the controls if you have a complicated patch. It makes recording patches a lot easier too Smile
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Ricko



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The matrix seems to be good where:

1) you work out that perfect FX patch and will pretty much want to stick with it (both JM Jarre and Klaus Schultz seem to use their synthis like this): having patch cords will just be cumbersome: probably you have multiple synths in this case

2) you won't really be having multiple new modules but can stick with just the 20 or so inputs and 20 or so outputs.

3) or you are really short on space (but the eurorack/fracracks are OK for this too).
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SPIKE the Percussionist



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok...

THANKS for the response!

looks like there are pros and cons to both.

i am not to worried about all the patch cables and i always like having EXTRA doo daads on a noiz toy!

looks like the Tereshkova might be the one for me.

thanks again!!

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thedarkroom



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="v-un-v"]
EdisonRex wrote:

Paul is right. Pin Matrices are a stupid idea. They're fiddly and laborious to set up and unless done properly, suffer from crosstalk and impedance problems- ie you are likely to not only pick up unwanted modulation from other sources, but you also get the situation where things change every time you put another pin in. AND, they cost the earth. Stupid idea. )


I agree you do get crosstalk and all manner of unrepeatable accidents and as any EMS owner will tell you that's all part of the magic. Those machines are unpredictable, full of foibles and character. Matrix bays are fiddly but remember the wonderful and unique sounds that artists such as Kraftwerk Eno, PinkFloyd have created using them... although sadly the Vostok doesn't sound anything like as good as a Synthi. I'd raid the bank for a VCS3 or buy a Doepfer and expand, this is worth a look too, I've heard good reports...

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-42627.html
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Heathfinnie



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was NOT a big fan of the vostok and was annoyed that most of the connections in the matrix were just duplicated with jacks. I mean I get the point as you can connect more than just the one, but overall I also wasn't blown away by the sound either.
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SPIKE the Percussionist



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heathfinnie wrote:
I was NOT a big fan of the vostok and was annoyed that most of the connections in the matrix were just duplicated with jacks. I mean I get the point as you can connect more than just the one, but overall I also wasn't blown away by the sound either.


whoah...really?
you didn't like the noiz it makes?

i have been saving up for the Tereshkova for a while now.
really like the design of the beast.

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Heathfinnie



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope, not a fan of the sound or the interface (and this is coming from someone who loves the synthi)
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oljud



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They're different interfaces. Make you think and patch in different ways. Like banana vs mini jack: you can in theory create the same patch as bananas with minis. But you won't.
Which is better? No idea. Although it sounds a bit like the matrix has been tacked on afterwards, if some connections have duplucates in jack form.
How do you attenuate with a matrix?
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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oljud wrote:
How do you attenuate with a matrix?


with the vcs3/synthi you have output levels

I think the vostok uses different resistor pins

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ndkent



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have an AKS and have never worked with a Vostok, just to mention my point of view.

The pin matrix idea to me is more a neat idea to contemplate than a really efficient solution. Mostly if you have a finite number of ins and outs in a finite size system you could save space.

You face some problems, most importantly signal loss and there is risk of crosstalk though it may or may not be an issue.

Really if you think about it, if it were the ideal way to do things then a matrix would be on more than a handful of synths.

The Vostok gives you one because they want to evoke a feeling of an EMS synth. Its not a copy of an EMS synth and as mentioned I've not worked with one. But I think the feeling was part of the concept.

EMS synths do have a very special quirky personality that is near impossible to duplicate in sound despite most of it's features being available elsewhere to one degree or another.

I don't know about the mention of multiple kinds of pins on the Vostok. The plastic part of the pins can contain a resistor or for other non-synths may have a diode or nothing but a connection.

For what it's worth, on EMS synths the white and yellow pins were the same. 35 to 40 years ago precision 5% accuracy resistors were really pricey so they were reserved for the red pins so that they were more accurate and meant for frequency control. These days five times better 1% accuracy resistors cost 2¢ making the special red pins not special. The green pins attenuated (let less signal through intentionally). Any other colors would have come from traffic lights or radar systems as well as any of the colors mentioned from sources other than EMS.
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