electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Alesis Andromeda
Andy hangs on boot
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [19 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:45 am    Post subject: Andy hangs on boot Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hello all,
I am a first time poster, long time reader. I recently purchased a used Andy that hangs on the splash screen. My second one. I bought one of the first ones in 2001, and had to sell it a few years later. I have been shopping around for a while and decided to take a chance on a non working unit, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford one. I was hedging my bets that it could be a software issue. So far resets haven't resolved it, and reloading the OS hasn't either. Bootloader Version 1.20.37 and OS 1.40.13.

I reflashed the .12 OS with the .13 via sysex, same behavior. The unit will pass all diagnostics, but won't go past the splash screen and none of the button or knobs have any impact once stuck on the splash screen.

I read lots of comments about reloading the boot loader, but I couldn't find it or instructions on how to do just that piece.

I was wondering if anyone here can give a fellow Andy junky some advice or troubleshooting direction. Or, even contact info for folks that used to work on them, and have insight. My current step is to try and find out how to reload the boot loader.

From there I will crack it open to check all the cables, which I was told was already done, and then check the battery.

Any help is appreciated!!!
M
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HrastProgrammer



Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 208
Location: CPU
Audio files: 49

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is from A6 service manual, maybe it will be of some help for you:

3.202 Unit Doesn’t Boot – Stuck at Splash Screen

If the LCD is stuck in the splash screen, “Alesis A6 Andromeda”, it means the microprocessor on the Front Panel Left board is working, but may have a communication problem with the Main board, or the Main board itself may have a problem.

* Check the ribbon cable going from the Front Panel Left board to the Main board.

* Make sure the flash on the Main board (U3) is properly programmed.

* Check the pins of the microprocessor (U36), flash (U3), SRAMS (U6,U12,U17), PLD (U29) and other fine-pin-pitch parts on the board for solder shorts or opens.

* Make sure the RESET line is in the proper state.

* Try powering up holding soft button 2 or 3.

* Verify the supply voltages on the Main Board.

* Make sure the crystals are oscillating on the Main Board. If M1 is not oscillating, then the unit will be able to boot into diagnostic mode, but not normal mode (this is because the normal mode software is stuck trying to initialize the DSP chip).

* Check the main board U12 IS61LV25616 SRAM. If the brand is ICSI, try replacing it with an ISSI brand SRAM. The way to tell if this is the problem is to power up twice quickly. If it makes it past the boot screen the second time, this might be the problem.

_________________
http://www.hrastprogrammer.com/hrastwerk/
http://hrastprogrammer.bandcamp.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HRAST - Thanks for the info. I did find that service manual online, and saw that section, however I couldn't find anything to explain most of it.

Its similar to my other question. I read that I should reload the boot loader, but couldn't find out how.

If any of the gurus can help identify more specifically how to execute these tasks I can go through them.....

* Check the ribbon cable going from the Front Panel Left board to the Main board.
OK, This one I can 'check' to make sure its seated or not damaged.

* Make sure the flash on the Main board (U3) is properly programmed.
How do I do this?

* Check the pins of the microprocessor (U36), flash (U3), SRAMS (U6,U12,U17), PLD (U29) and other fine-pin-pitch parts on the board for solder shorts or opens.
OK, I think I can just visually check for solder breaks here.

* Make sure the RESET line is in the proper state.
Where What is the RESET line and what is the proper state.

* Try powering up holding soft button 2 or 3.
Did all that already. no change.

* Verify the supply voltages on the Main Board.
Verify them to what. What should they be and where exactly should I meter?

* Make sure the crystals are oscillating on the Main Board. If M1 is not oscillating, then the unit will be able to boot into diagnostic mode, but not normal mode (this is because the normal mode software is stuck trying to initialize the DSP chip).
How do I confirm the crystals are oscillating?

* Check the main board U12 IS61LV25616 SRAM. If the brand is ICSI, try replacing it with an ISSI brand SRAM. The way to tell if this is the problem is to power up twice quickly. If it makes it past the boot screen the second time, this might be the problem.
I tried booting up several times quickly with no change.

Thanks for any help!! All comments and tips appreciated.
M
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mefistophelees



Joined: Mar 06, 2011
Posts: 77
Location: l'Angleterre
Audio files: 4

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fireroasted wrote:


* Make sure the flash on the Main board (U3) is properly programmed.
How do I do this?



If you're asking questions like that you're probably better off finding somewhere that can service it.

I've heard horror stories of people messing around inside expensive synths and frying them so you do need to be careful.

I have some qualifications in electronics and I happily take things apart but even I was was considering having it serviced. This is a *very* complex machine.

It looks like you've got a faulty but not dead machine. Someone qualified might be able to bring it back to life. Yes it'll cost money, but it's a lot better than taking the risk of completely killing it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HrastProgrammer



Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 208
Location: CPU
Audio files: 49

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fireroasted wrote:
* Make sure the flash on the Main board (U3) is properly programmed.
How do I do this?

* Make sure the RESET line is in the proper state.
Where What is the RESET line and what is the proper state.

* Verify the supply voltages on the Main Board.
Verify them to what. What should they be and where exactly should I meter?

* Make sure the crystals are oscillating on the Main Board. If M1 is not oscillating, then the unit will be able to boot into diagnostic mode, but not normal mode (this is because the normal mode software is stuck trying to initialize the DSP chip).
How do I confirm the crystals are oscillating?


Hi, sorry I can't help you with how-to because I am not a technician. As I said, I just copied those from the service manual to show a few possible causes of freezing on boot. I'd suggest that you find an Alesis service center or some qualified technician who can check all this for you.

The point is that Main PCB is probably faulty and this is not something you can easily fix by yourself ...

_________________
http://www.hrastprogrammer.com/hrastwerk/
http://hrastprogrammer.bandcamp.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe this isn't the correct forum, but I was hoping to find the gurus of this cult device. I have an electrical engineering background, but am more apt not to trust a service tech as they will simply replace boards until it works all on my dime. I haven't found there to be a real intellectual process of troubleshooting unless you do it yourself. My questions were pointing out the lack of details of the references in the service manual. To do it though I need folks that are experienced to provide some information. I know they must be out there, and even some of the original designers of the unit. I was just hoping to catch some detailed data, similar to the write up of the battery change that was done, and where the person also discovered a diode set in the incorrect direction.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2132967-A6-Andromeda-Repair-Battery-Replacement-with-pics

I hear your suggestion about going to a tech, but I am not there yet, or ready to give up that easy. The unit is impressive, but simply a collection of components that shouldn't intimidate.

Reloading just the bootloader which is specifically mentioned in some other threads should be simple enough, but I also can't find the supporting detail for that. This doesn't require opening the unit at all, and should be a simple first step. Can anyone chime in on how exactly that is done, or have a link to the file(s)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tmste



Joined: Aug 17, 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject: Bootloader upgrade Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As you I'm looking forward to find the most recent Bootloader. It should be a syxex file. I've not been able to find it on the net. for shure it exists because the service Manual talks about it.

if anybody knows anything.. pease post it.
thanks,

Stef
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CoolColJ



Joined: Feb 11, 2011
Posts: 107
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You should send a PM to Mike Peake, he's one of the people behind it.

http://electro-music.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8515
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
tmste



Joined: Aug 17, 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:07 am    Post subject: bootcode Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I did it. Peake doesn have it. He says to ask for the boootcode/bootloader to the
community. It's a SYSEX file. Anybody can tell me_ where and how to find it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

update, I also checked with Alesis today, and they couldn't provide any information on the Andy, and also didn't have any familiarity with the bootloader I was asking about. I also emailed Peake, and he referred me back to the community.

How many Andy owners out there had to replace the main board? Did you have the same behavior of being stuck on the splash screen?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 525
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What about contacting Dave Bryce? He also worked on the Andromeda: http://www.davidbryce.net/

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2007/06/making-andromeda-a6.html

_________________
Sneak-Thief - raw electrofunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice tip. I will follow up with what I can find out.
Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just wanted to update here,

I did not receive a response for David Bryce. I could not find any information on the bootloader, not even from Alesis.

I contacted the shops provided by alesis and a few others about a repair that included some level of troubleshooting to identify the actual problem and which specific board, but no luck. They all simply just replace the Main board and 'see' what happens.

I therefore purchased a main board from Alesis, which was easy enough. The price was 600 bucks, and it arrived in 2 days. Surprising was the fact that it was clearly a used board. Dirty and marked up in various ways. The board that was in my used A6 was super clean by comparison. The pins of the board from Alesis were also in bad shape, so a little prep work was needed.

Once installed the A6 booted as expected and seems to be working well now. Need more time to complete loading patches and tuning and all that. I will update when I have logged some time on it.

I do now have a main board that doesn't work, but would likely serve as good spare parts if a component level analysis was done.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just seen this thread (I don't hang here very often, mostly in the DIY section) and I'm glad that you now have a working machine.

I worked at doing public support after the machines' release but I don't have all of the software stashed away, sorry. I -do- have a few bits of hardware such as endcaps as they were being tossed during the bankruptcy (!), for any who need them.

The cabling was only held in place with glue gun shots, not with locking interconnects (thankfully, IIRC, the connectors were gold). As such, checking the ribbon cables is a good idea, if you want to continue working on your dead board. If you can find the bootloader, be very careful, because if you interrupt its loading over MIDI via a power failure etc., the chip would have to be replaced with one already hosting the correct software.

Colin, how are you? (Colin had ordered an A6 prior to the bankruptcy and was unhappy that we had run out, and weren't at that time having any new ones built; we shipped everything we could excepting one we used for testing and reference at the office. We found some parts and built one last unit, for Colin, and that was IIRC the last one until Numark got into the mix.)

_________________
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid. -mwagener

"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: A6 internals Photos Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a duped post of another one I had at Harmony Central.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2754149-Andromeda-Troubleshooting/page2

I figured I would just go ahead an repost the content since I am not sure where most A6 folks hand out, and if either site will be up over the long term for future reference.


Here are some photos of the A6

This is one of the ribbon cables from the main board to the ASICs controller board. As you can see somebody glued inside of the connector. This wasn't possible to get completely clean I made and then replaced the cable. Most of these cables were not available in their sizes, but you can buy the ribbon and the connectors and crimp your own cable. You can also test it to make sure it works the cheapo way, by using two needles, inserted into the holes and a regular ohm meter for continuity.
[IMG]https://files.me.com/fireroasted/8w7q0j[/IMG]

This was the other cable that went from the Main board to the Main ASICs board. It also had a lot of glue debri, but I tried cleaning it first. You can see the residue of where it was in the plug on the cable still.
[IMG]https://files.me.com/fireroasted/ght5xc[/IMG]

Here is a rather large photo of the Main Board. I left it a bit bigger so you could better see the individual components.
[IMG]https://files.me.com/fireroasted/ebfv82[/IMG]

This is the ASIC PCB with all the analog chips. It was the connection between these two boards that I suspected was causing my issue.
[IMG]https://files.me.com/fireroasted/gdt0j8[/IMG]

This is the A6 with the above two boards removed. Its a bit blurry, but you can see that even now there are 4 specific PCB boards still in the unit, and the powersupply board. So include the two missing that would make 7. Its a very neatly laid out unit compared to other older synths, and very easy to work on/in.
[IMG]https://files.me.com/fireroasted/huza9a[/IMG]

This last one is of the ASIC controller board that reside underneath the ASIC main board. This one provides all the outputs. [IMG]https://files.me.com/fireroasted/nmesjy[/IMG]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fireroasted



Joined: Mar 08, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone see whats wrong with my image tags? so I fix them. Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20274
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 143
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fireroasted wrote:
Anyone see whats wrong with my image tags? so I fix them. Thanks


Nothing I think ... but when I try to manually open the images firefox wants to open them in an editor instead opening them itself ... so probably the server serves them with some unexpected headers that prevents inlining.

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
sunny pedaal



Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Posts: 687
Location: netherlands
Audio files: 12

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

give it a try:


IMG_0338.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  126.66 KB
 Viewed:  102 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMG_0338.jpg



IMG_0340.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  127.75 KB
 Viewed:  110 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMG_0340.jpg



IMG_0342.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  575.81 KB
 Viewed:  123 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMG_0342.JPG



IMG_0344.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  585.31 KB
 Viewed:  118 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMG_0344.JPG



IMG_0348.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  110.5 KB
 Viewed:  106 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

IMG_0348.JPG


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CoolColJ



Joined: Feb 11, 2011
Posts: 107
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

X rated porn Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [19 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Alesis Andromeda
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
mps board

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use