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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » MIDI Controllers and Interfaces
Motion Sensing Interface for Music
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Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm OK with the wires for now. The application is half music performance and half exercise. Sounds like a weird combination, but here's why: I'm a big guy as in overweight, a lot overweight. I don't like to exercise but when I do the weight sheds like it was never there. I also like performing music using custom hardware and software that I create, and using pots and sliders is so limiting because you can only control one thing at a time.

So the solution is a 3D music/motion controller. For initial use I will be seated, the arm and slight torso motions being plenty of exercise over an hour's performance time for my level of fitness. Then as I get in better shape I would like to do more standing, kicking, jumping, or whatever, full body motions. Of course half of the fun will be developing the ChucK software to make my own style of music and the other half will be the performance side.

I'll be doing this on a Mac mini, which I'm sure you're aware is compatible with many PC peripherals. Will this new device meet my needs, or is there some gotcha like software does not talk to ChucK? Will it work for me?

Les

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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know much about Hydra development (or ChucK), but look through http://sixense.com/ and maybe ask Dev@Sixense.com. I know you can get the Sixense TrueMotion SDK through Steam. Install Steam and look under Tools. The YouTube video I linked to in the first post shows that Sixense is making a program already, so I'm personally waiting to see if it will be programmable.
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

An admin in the Sixense forum just posted that they're low on dev kits and recommends that developers wait for the release. In case you wanted to know.
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's my idea for the 'Community' link on the fake webpage. The Sixense forum would get a third category: Mu6. These are the subforums:

General Discussion
News

Q&A
Troubleshooting

Programming
Data/Code Exchange

Performance
Music Theory

Stories
Other Instruments

Off-topic

Am I missing anything? Are there any ambiguities regarding where things should be posted?
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While we wait for something new, does anyone want to discuss speakers or headphones to use with a Mu6? I plan on buying the KDE250 ear clips. They're the most expensive non-full-size headphones (which I find uncomfortable with glasses) with a lifetime warranty, but despite their $250 sound (according to Koss's price), they go for as little as $120 new. They're dual driver, don't need an amp, and don't isolate (which I would think is unsafe or impractical in a home setting). The longest review I can find is at http://www.avguide.com/review/koss-kde250-dual-element-headphone-playback-39.
Last edited by Mr. Mormon on Sat May 14, 2011 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And does anyone have experience with the Koss ESP950?
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Disappointing news. April 21 brought nothing more than a Razer update. The Hydra (bundled with Portal 2) will be released in June and preorder will be available in May. Still no updates about Sixense's or Razer's music attempts. The Sixense SDK on Steam is out of date and so far there isn't any SDK available from Razer, but the website says that an "upcoming release of the Razer Hydra's configuration software will allow you to edit configurations for specific programs to your liking."
Last edited by Mr. Mormon on Sun May 08, 2011 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Celine



Joined: Apr 24, 2011
Posts: 1
Location: belgium

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys, you should definitely check out the Percussa AudioCubes.

Recently Mark Mosher, an electronic music artist from Colorada, created the 9BOX methodology, a system for performance, improvisation, and spontaneous tribal jams with music, sound, and light. The system is based on Percussa AudioCubes and Ableton Live ( Read more and watch video)
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Second link is broken. Also, the first page of this thread explains the downsides of AudioCubes. Thank you, though.
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Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20685
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 156
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Celine wrote:
Hi guys,


Hi Celine, you should definitely Wink mention your relation to the Percussa company.

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cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2256
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Since you mentioned Motion Sensing & MAc in the same post,
I thought I'd add this even though this isn't the Mac forum.
It's not exactly what you're looking for, but I think it's got potential.

http://www.vimeo.com/22035244

http://d0cut0uch.com/forums.html/eyesynthosc

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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've changed my mind about the KDE250. HeadRoom reviewed it here, saying that most people couldn't adjust it to fit right. I emailed to ask whether it sounded better than the Yuin G1A - they recommended the G1A, and that's what I think I'll get.
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Hydra-Portal 2 bundle can now be pre-ordered here for 140 USD. Choose UPS Ground for free shipping.
Last edited by Mr. Mormon on Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pre-ordered the Hydra (saved $10 from two coupon codes here) and received the G1A (from HeadRoom - HeadDirect's shipping is $5). Time to figure out whether I'll need a dac and/or amp.
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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can now request a dev kit here.
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Inventor
Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 5978
Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

See this thread:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-332025.html#332025

For info about the Gyration Air Mouse Elite, which is a 3D mouse that works for music control also.

Les

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Mr. Mormon



Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 67
Location: US

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's shipping! Now the Hydra-Portal 2 bundle can be bought and is no longer in pre-order status.
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Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20685
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 156
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had classified this thread as spam, but changed my mind on that. I want to apologize to Mr. Mormon for being a jerk here, sorry - my spam paranoia took the better bit of me.
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Mr. Mormon



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're forgiven, Blue Hell. Smile Now, update: on Steam's tools list, you can download the Sixense SDK for the Razer Hydra (see this thread for slightly old SDK docs), but that won't be necessary; you can also download the Sixense MIDI Controller program. Together with an internal MIDI routing program like LoopBe1, the Hydra can send MIDI to any program that accepts it (I'm trying to get it to work with Csound). I can't report on success yet, since LoopBe1 keeps auto-muting because of its annoying feedback detection feature. The SMC manual says there's a way to disable that feature, but I can't figure it out yet. Sixense is looking into it and says for now to use the free trial version of LoopBe30, which has to be restarted every hour but never ends. And the SMC manual is attached.


SixenseMIDIController.pdf
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Mr. Mormon



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sadly, it still might be a while before I can say anything about SMC - it's hard to figure out where to start with Csound.
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Mr. Mormon



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sixense is asking for beta testers for Open Sound Control with the controllers. One doesn't need a third-party routing program like LoopBe to get OSC working with, say, Csound, which is a big plus. I asked to be one.

P.S. This feels like a blog. Where is everybody?
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Mr. Mormon



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got permission to link to the OSC files. SixenseOSCtest.maxpat is a sample path for Max/MSP (a free trial of which is available). I'm going to try it out soon, but for now I'm told that one simply runs the .exe and makes sure Csound etc. listens to the right OSC port number. For Csound at least, OSC documentation is here and a video tutorial can be found here. SixenseOSC messages are in this form:

/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/buttons/start 0
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/buttons/3 0
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/buttons/4 0
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/buttons/1 0
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/buttons/2 0
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/buttons/bumper 0
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/buttons/joystick 0
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/trigger 0.
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/joystick/x 0.
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/joystick/y 0.
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/position/x 121.663231
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/position/y -5.926387
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/position/z -147.212845
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/rotation/x 0.309154
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/rotation/y -0.019418
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/rotation/z -0.122828
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/velocity/x 303.406311
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/velocity/y 41.067856
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/velocity/z -129.912674
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/acceleration/x -2248.423828
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/acceleration/y 6473.790039
/sixense/hydra/0/controller/right/acceleration/z -2870.674072

Unlike SMC, the entire controller states seem to be accessible!

And now for some older news. I found a two-week-old Sixense video of SMC controlling Massive along with a setup and demonstration. And in this thread, Sixense mentions that a mac version of SOSC may be available in a month or two.

I've got to say, Sixense is really keeping its eyes on a potential market among musicians... Awesome.
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Mr. Mormon



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Posts: 67
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SOSC works on Csound! Here's a copy of my feedback to Sixense in their forum:

Once I read how Csound handles OSC, it was easy to get it to display the controller variables in real-time, even for the left controller. The promised 1 mm/degree resolution and six-foot-radius range are legit. I'll have to wait until I'm making sound (and learn more about Csound) before I comment on latency. Besides my suggestions about the configurator [Hydra configuration program], I have a question. I don't get how the rotation variables work. Obviously a manual for SOSC would be an improvement, but I assumed it would work like in the SMC manual:

Rotation Angle in X, Y and Z
If a control is bound to one of these parameters, it will move between min and max as the controller
rotates from side to side or up and down. All three axes will be at the ‘center’ CC value when the
controller is pointing directly forward. For the X coordinate, min is when the controller is turned 90
degrees to the left, and max when 90 degrees to the right. The Y coordinate increases and decreases as
the controller tilts up and down, and the Z as the controller is rolled to the left and right.

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but that's exactly how I envisioned the rotation control to work. As long as z is zero, x and y work as I expect. But z is confusing. It seems to behave like y and get added to x. Perhaps the z axis isn't through the handle? SOSC is great already, but there you are. Smile
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Mr. Mormon



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's something I forgot to mention. There's a file where the Hydra software is installed called force_filter.txt with four numbers in it. Here's Sixense's explanation of motion filtering:

The first number is the distance from the base to start ramping of the filter value.
The third number is the distance from the base to end ramping of the filter value.
The second number is the start value for the filter
The fourth number is the end value for the filter.

Default force_filter.txt values:
800 .93 1200 .98

At 800mm or less, the filter value applied is 0.93
At 1200 or more the filter value applied is 0.98
Anywhere in between, a linear ramp of the filter value is applied.

For now, I'm using 0 0 0 0 to disable filtering, but it's a feature!
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Mr. Mormon



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

By the way, if anyone has experience with Csound, I would really appreciate some help with my current hurdles. See my threads at the Csound beginners forum.
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