electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
go to the radio page Live at electro-music.com radio 1 Please visit the chat
poster
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
why so many VCAs?
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
waveplant



Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:42 pm    Post subject: why so many VCAs? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One opinion I hear amongst modular synthesis veterans on these forums is that you can't have too many VCAs.

Would someone mind explaining to a newbie like myself why that is? And perhaps citing a really simple example where a VCA isn't just the last step in an audible signal chain?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can put a VCA before a modulation input for instance and so make the modulation amount voltage controlled.

For instance when you start a note you might want deeper vibrato that dies off slowly. This can be done by adding a VCA between the vibrato LFO and the FM input of the oscillator and controlling the VCA from the ADSR that you cantrol the volume with as well.

Or in general, it allows you to modulate the modulations, this can give you a more lively sound.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cbm



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 381
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In addition to the dynamic modulation that Blue Hell mentions above, which is really important, a VC mix of signals is totally useful, if you have VC resonance in a filter, that's done with a VCA. Counting VCAs that are built into other modules like oscillators, and filters, I probably have 40–50 VCAs in my system

(that said, you can have too many VCAs)

_________________
Chris Muir
http://www.eardrill.com <– My jobby (more than a hobby, less than a job)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What they said...

And yes.. there is probably a VCA saturation point.. at some stage.. Laughing

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
blue hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24075
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 277
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
And yes.. there is probably a VCA saturation point.. at some stage.. Laughing


Thats where virtual modulars shine, no wasted rack space for too many xxx modules Wink

(and patch cables are free too!)

But anyway, the point is that control signal handling should not be undervalued - often I build patches with just one oscillator and tons of control signals and control modulations and delays and feedbacks and modifiers, and such can sound like an orchestra .. or like mud Wink

(blub b)

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cbm



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 381
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I often use VCAs as effects sends to external delays & verbs. Being able to have a delay send controlled by a lfo/envelope/sequencer/random/whathaveyou is really fun.
_________________
Chris Muir
http://www.eardrill.com <– My jobby (more than a hobby, less than a job)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elektro80
Site Admin


Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cbm wrote:
I often use VCAs as effects sends to external delays & verbs. Being able to have a delay send controlled by a lfo/envelope/sequencer/random/whathaveyou is really fun.


Yup, I also use VCAs for mixing delays, reverbs and what have you. Serious fun. Very Happy

_________________
A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"

MySpace
SoundCloud
Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
waveplant



Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh, of course - it's the same thing as the filter envelope amount knob on a hardwired synth. or [*~] in maxMSP. should've realized but with all this new information, my brain wasn't processing the details.

appreciate the clarification!

so is that the same thing attenuators are used for, albeit with the knobs calibrated in the opposite direction and without the added flexibility of serving as an output stage?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
cbm



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 381
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, a VCA is a multiplier. Love this analog computing thing.
_________________
Chris Muir
http://www.eardrill.com <– My jobby (more than a hobby, less than a job)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

waveplant wrote:
oh, of course - it's the same thing as the filter envelope amount knob on a hardwired synth.


You don't need a VCA to implement a filter envelope amount knob, that's just simple attenuation. Sometimes VCFs have a knob next to the CV frequency input, that would be a filter envelope amount knob, of you've hooked an ADSR there.

But if you want the filter envelope amount to change over time automatically, that's a job for a VCA + modulation source.

waveplant wrote:
or [*~] in maxMSP.


That's a better analogy I think.

/Stefan

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Eric G



Joined: Mar 07, 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also, what about layering???
Of course you would like to have two or more different sounds layered. So you need more VCA:s.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Modular Synthesis
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use