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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
I propose a challenge!
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rosch



Joined: Oct 03, 2009
Posts: 162
Location: germany

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sure, sorry forgot about that. updated the previous post.
well, now that i know their names i really feel lost.
Smile

so this is definitely going to be a real challenge for me.
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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rosch wrote:
i got my randoms:
(now including the descriptions)

11x V4013D (eastern soviet germany) dual D-type flip flop
5x MC14016B quad analog switch / multiplexer
1x MC14002BCP dual 4-input NOR gate
1x MC14554BCP 2bit-by-2bit parallel binary multiplier
1x HEF40106BP hex inverting schmitt trigger
2x MC14557BCP 1-to-64-bit variable length shift register
1x HEF40374BP octal D-type flip-flop with 3-state outputs
1x MC14530BCP dual 5-input Majority logic gate
1x MC14018BCP presettable divide by N counter
1x CD4068BE cmos 8-input NAND AND gate


Dude, you have a binary multiplier! That's golden man, you can do ring modulation with that thing. Plus lots of other stuff!. I'm also really curious about those dual 5-input majority logic gates, not familar with them so good for learning. Let's see no fewer than 11 flip flops and 5 switches, those will be good because they are in quantity. Plus you've got a presettable divide by N counter.

Here's an idea, and don't build this, just a thought to get you started on your own fun design. Use the flip-flops to store a byte or no, an 11 bit number. why? because "this one goes to 11" of course. Then generate a long complex sequence from that byte using the presettable counter. Make some king of generative sine wave out of it. aww, i gotta go no time to think this out because my physical therapist is here. more later.

Les

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ezekiel



Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Posts: 30
Location: Columbus Ohio

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, Rosch, you have an amazing set of chips. I have had a lot of fun with D flip flops in soundmaking. The 2-bit multiplier is cool. As Inventor said, ringmod is multiplication and so is a VCA. (But, everyone else with enough logic chips could make a 2-bit multiplier with a little internet searching.) And, a long shift register and a 4018, too. No pressure, man, but I expect some cool stuff from you!
Smile

This challenge is a great idea.

Are we saying only resistors, capacitors, switches, and LEDs?
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think rosch should make a little mini computer processor, a dedicated one that plays sounds. That multiplier and those flip-flops (that many of them) speak to me as memory device with a 2x2 arithmetic core. Are there any simple algorithms that would generate something recognizable that way? I know multiplying a number successively by a number below one makes an exponential. Wouldn't it be cool to generate a sine wave from a lunetta mini-microprocessor? Ideas... Imagineering...

Les

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brock



Joined: May 26, 2011
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just saw this thread and thought it was an inspired idea. It seems like too much fun not to play so I ordered my parts and I'm in.

I'm surprised that everyone seems to have a pretty useful selection of parts, although for you guys wanting to do linear CMOS, sndbyte has you beat with his unbuffered 4069s.

Brock
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brock,

welcome to electro-music.com - great to have you here.

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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Welcome Brock! Glad to hear you are joining the challenge.
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm going to describe my design before it's complete just because I'm in a talkative mood, properly caffeinated, and it's late at night - my active time. I'll mention the overall structure of it here, then provide details about the subcircuits in other posts. See the following post:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-48030.html

for a description of the design from the perspective of it being a new type of Boolean Sequencer. Also see the "Linear CMOS" thread in this subforum (Lunettas) for schematics of the NAND and NOR amplifiers that I will be using.

OK, the theme or title of my circuit is "A Lifetime of Music", so chosen because it will play a song that lasts for approximately 100 years before it repeats (or the life of the battery unless you hotswap the battery to preserve the sequence during your lifetime, lol). My bag-o-chips contained three 4020 binary counters which when chained in series produce a 40 bit count (with four of the middle bits unavailable, but that's ok since I won't need to use them all). I've already wired up the counter and it seems to be chugging along quite nicely with a clock of 1.5 kHz.

Anyway, the concept here is that Stan Lunetta pioneered something decades ago that is truly timeless in that it will last essentially forever now that we've all latched onto it (oh, bad pun, bad pun). So why not honor the man with a little stand-alone music sculpture that sings a song that lasts a lifetime? Actually Stan, from what little I know about him, is a very modest guy who is not overly fond of hero worship of any sort, so I would imagine he'd not like to be singled out for noble praise, so let's just consider the concept to be thought provoking and interesting for what it is.

The circuit has an intereting clock based on an SR NOR latch (yes, an oscillating flip flop) which I will destribe later or elsewhere. It will have several Linear CMOS dual-input / dual-feedback amplifiers with filtering to convert the digital count into audio signals. I am toying with the idea of using a piggyback chip pair just because I think it's cool, and the final output goes into a LM386 audio amplifier driving an 8 ohm speaker. There is a volume control and at the moment no other controls, though I may add some. Also I have a stock of broken solar cell chips and a few CDS cells that I may throw in to give the circuit light responsiveness. Maybe I'll add an 1/8" stereo audio jack as well, we'll see.

So that's it, only7 chips to create "A Lifetime of Music". I have no idea how it will sound but indications are that it will be somewhat drone-like but with rhythmic structure like a conventional song at tempos ranging from the LSB frequency to the bottom of the audio range (20 Hz). Also it should be smoothly varying in tone, unlike the traditional square-wave-ish tones of a Lunetta.

Well, I've been writing all night and the caffeine is wearing off, so I'd better finish. Thanks if you read all this and wish me luck, I may need it!

Les

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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am following this thread with great interest and Im liking all the ideas already.

unfortunately I have to redo my evaluation and I really need to focus on that at the moment so I can't participate.

I fully agree with going when the going is good, since this is a friendly challenge I don't see a problem with starting early. Like Les said, it's all about the personal challenge.

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ezekiel



Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Posts: 30
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell said:

Quote:
All things that can invert can be made to oscillate I think ... and a couple of diodes with biasing resistors might add hysteresis where not built in.


Yep, all NAND, NOR, XOR, and NOT gates will oscillate and there are schematics for that.

But, what is this about diodes and resistors? Can you make or point to a schematic and an explanation? I don't think I am familiar with that concept and it sounds very promising for experiments.
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ezekiel



Joined: Oct 17, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got popular Lunetta chips:
4 4001 NOR
2 4011 NAND
2 4512 8-in multiplexer with tristate output
4 4019 AND/OR combo
2 4020 counter
1 4022 8-step johnson counter (like 4017)
1 4023 3-input NAND
3 4040 counter
1 4052 2x4 multiplexer
4 4069UB unbuffered inverters

I actually ordered two packs and the other one is almost exactly identical except swapping a 4093 for the 4023.

I am definitely going to head toward linear CMOS to make this interesting.
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tony void



Joined: Apr 26, 2011
Posts: 38
Location: Parma, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I too will be joining this! Although I won't be putting in order for maybe two weeks to many other irons in the now. Oh well better late than never! Insane challenge for a noob-boob like me.
Also that thar GoldMine site is just full of fun random packages. Could easily do a few variations on this Challenge. Using linear chips, The semi conductor treasure bag, etc.
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Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 247
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tony void wrote:
Also that thar GoldMine site is just full of fun random packages. Could easily do a few variations on this Challenge. Using linear chips, The semi conductor treasure bag, etc.


the problem with the other packs is that you don't get a lot of good stuff... like the semiconductor pack i got once and i got a bunch of optocouplers, some 555's and some other stuff... nothing really fun. the cmos one is by far the most exciting.
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sndbyte



Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 115
Location: sf

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This past week I started working on this. I built a box to house the circuits I build. I also started experimenting with my clock circuit and hopefully will solder that up this weekend.

Besides using some new ICs I've never used before, I decided to build a modular style unit using banana jacks/plugs. I'm also experimenting with ABS plastic for the panels. I have not drilled in those yet, and I'm hoping they are easier to work with than aluminum. I'm still waiting on banana jacks to arrive in the mail, so I don't think I'll have a finished product until the end of the month (or after!).

This is a fun challenge/project to work on and I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone creates.
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll most likely use nuts and bolts because I have a ton of them and I used up most of my nanners for my main lunetta. I don't have any metal panels in that one. I've used styrene and acrylic with pretty decent results. The acrylic is prone to cracking but taking one's time helps; the styrene was a breeze to work with but I wish I could have found a thicker gauge at the time. Haven't tried ABS; let me know how that drills Smile .

I had a busy stretch this week but I did experiment with the 4052 and the 4512. I love the happy accidents/mistakes that lead to cool sounds: I hook up 2 outputs from my 4040 to the A and B of the 4052. Got some nice swooshy, phaser sounds that could be short or long depending on the speed of my oscillators.

The 4512 also tested well when various outs are connected to the 8 data inputs. AB and C are the controllers and their states decide which of the 8 channels gets to its out pin. Can't beat that with a stick for lunetta fun Very Happy .

And welcome aboard Tony! And don't worry about noobishness - fresh ideas and big plans keep this forum rockin'.

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brock



Joined: May 26, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm a bit slow with the response here but thanks for the welcome. I just received my kit and it's similar to most of the recent ones, although the total of 10 muxes is different and should be useful.

2 HEF4001 Quad 2-Input NOR Gate
2 HEF4011 Quad 2-Input NAND Gate
3 CD4019 Quad And/Or Select Gate
2 CD4020 14 Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter
2 CD4022 Octal Counter with 8 Decoded Outputs
2 MC14040 12-Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter
5 CD4052 Dual 4-Channel Analog Multiplexer
2 MC14503 Hex Non-Inverting 3-State Buffer
5 HEF4512 8-Channel Data Selector

I notice the date code on the 4512s is 9119 - that's 20 years old. I find it curiously encouraging that we can use 20 year old parts to (re)create 40 year old designs and be completely happy with the effort and the results when the general impermanence of electonics today means most designs are scrap in a couple of years. Happy designing everyone.
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Captain Biscuits



Joined: Jun 11, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My little sister is in the states for a few days this week so I'm hoping that Electronic Goldmine can get an order of 4 cmos packs to her friend in New Jersey by Friday and that she can bring them back to the UK.

IF it works and I get 4 packs I will have 2 which are surplus to requirements so if there's anyone in the UK who's keen to have a go at this and is struggling to get a pack of chips drop me a pm and I'll see if I can get one mailed off to you.

Looking forward to getting started. Just hope the US post co-operates!

Ian

Last edited by Captain Biscuits on Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh man I've been so slack. I wasted a ton of time and effort learning how not to destroy solar cells, lol. I started with "Gee these things are brittle, snap!" and ended up with about ten little pieces that are only good for altering signal, not powering the unit. fubar!

So next I decided to chop up some breadboards with a diamond disk in a dremel tool, thinking i could mount things somehow better, which failed... But as I learned from a chatroom recently, when you fail; fail better!

So I did. I did so by attaching a 9V battery holder, wiring the power up, wiring up the counter and the beginning of the linear CMOS stuff. Oh, and i made that cool SR flip-flop clock.

Then I hooked up an lm386 audio amp and wired it to a nice little speaker from electronics gold mine. then i drained what was left of one of my two last remaining 9V batteries... so i'm down to my last battery.

Now i just gotta get motivated to finish the project, as it's about 75% done. and get more 9V batteries too.

End of progress report...

Les

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droffset



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey all, because of a postal strike Psyingo can't get a good price on shipping, is anyone willing to send one of these goodie bags to me down under?

Alternately, you people can choose which of the already posted lists I must work with and I'll get the parts here.

That way it's still a list of chips I didn't pick, and it'll feel the same.

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Captain Biscuits



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Droffset

If my sister's courier service works out & I get a couple of spare bags & you're still after a bag of bits in a week or so I'll drop you a line & see what we can sort out.

Cheers

Ian
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Captain Biscuits



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Oh man I've been so slack. I wasted a ton of time . . .


You call that slack?

In which case I never even REACH slack - I'm just fumbulating around way below the zero line Smile

Look forward to seeing what you're doing and also look forward to getting myself a bag of bits!!

Cheers

Ian
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alternatively DrOffset, I bought two bags and randomly selected one by coin toss. I have no idea what's in the other bag. I could just list it here for you and you get the chips locally. That would save a lot on shipping and would be totally kosher for the challenge.

Les

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droffset



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cheers for the offer Captain B!

Les that's a great idea, if there are no objections from the others I'm happy to do that. I have a pretty big stock of CMOS in a big box so it's possible I already have most of what's needed.

And If I absolutely can't find any of them the community can choose the substitute.

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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK DrOffset, Here is your personal bag-o-chips:

1 x CD4001 Quad 2-input NOR Gate
2 x HEF4001 Quad 2-input NOR Gate
1 x CD4011 Quad 2-input NAND Gate
5 x CD4019 Quad AND/OR Select Gate
1 x CD4020 14 stage Ripple-Carry Counter/Divider
3 x CD4022 Divide-by-8 Counter/Divider with 8 Decoded Outputs
2 x HCF4040 12-stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
2 x CD4052 Dual 4-Channel Analg Multiplexer/Demultiplexer
1 x CD4503 Hex Non-Inverting 3-State Buffer
3 x HEF4512 8 Channel Data Selector
4 x MC14040 ? same as CD4040 ? Unknown part to me

You and I have got a similar set of chips, I see that the coin toss would not have mattered much. There are some good logic gates, baby8 counter chips, boolean sequencer counter chips, and some other goodies. Lots to work with if not choosing those types of sequencers also. Good bag! Enjoy bro!

Les

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droffset



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome Les, thank you!
Great selection, plenty of gates to play with and I'll need to come up with an oscillator in there, which shouldn't be too hard. I know I have at least half of this stuff.

My favorite 4040 is in there.
MC14040 looks like it's a 12 bit binary counter,
4052s are nice little chips, like a pair of mini 4051s joined at the hip mirroring each other.
Some CV sequencing ideas in my brain, hey it might be a good time to do that Boolean sequencer.

Off to brainstorm a bit.

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