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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Alesis Andromeda
smoothing the controllers (hi res midi)
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pulsewave



Joined: Jun 26, 2011
Posts: 7
Location: pulsewave

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: smoothing the controllers (hi res midi) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Howdy,

I sweep the frequency of the oscillators across their entire range using the mod wheel, ribbon controller etc and the frequency jumps up in small steps (it is particularly obvious when sweeping with a ring modulated patch).

Presumably this is because the controllers are using the 0-127 steps of midi. Is there a way to smooth this out, or can I use a (external) high resolution midi controller to smoothly sweep? Any ideas?

Thanks,

jsl
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CoolColJ



Joined: Feb 11, 2011
Posts: 107
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Using the CV input on the back to the oscillator should be smoother if your input CV is smooth. It's analog

If you use Silent Way VST to send the CV - which can have 24 bit 95 khz signals - then it will be ultra smooth
It sure does sound like when I use it's LFO module to modulate my SH2's filter Smile
http://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/roland-sh2-and-silent-way-vst

You might need a DC coupled audio interface to make it work right. The LFO function doesn't need it though
I haven't used it all that much so I can say if you can send a midi CC to it for control, but it does have a midi to CV module, which requires a DC coupled audio interface

Setting the Engine Optimiser under the Prcoess button to smooth pitch should help as well
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CoolColJ



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I tried out the ribbon value to VCO pitch, and I can't hear any obvious stepping Question
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pulsewave



Joined: Jun 26, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the tips, I'll try the engine optimizer too. The ribbon controller is pretty smooth, but when you have the ring modulator on and sweep one of the oscillators the sound should cascade throught the bell-tones (ala CS-80 RM speed control), but it jumps slightly. The cv input works good (I use a modular synth to adjust the osc) but the osc looses the keyboard scaling which can be a problem at times.
Any thoughts on whether the a6 is able to recognize 14 bit midi or if and rnpn message could be used if I need to control midi parameters with a smoother response?
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CoolColJ



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well looking at the data from the ribbon controller via MidiOX says it's a lot more than 127 steps

I think the "stepping" is more to do with the 100 hertz update rate of the A6 engine. It's digital after all
I don't notice any signifcant stepping with the ribbon controller even with ring mod
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pulsewave



Joined: Jun 26, 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah, its a bit of a mystery. The ribbon controller is very smooth, but compared to the cv is has a slight stepping.
Thanks for the tips on the update rate. I'll have to check out midiox too.

With the cv input I finally got a decent CS 80-like ring mod patch. I use a sinwave (set to not respond to the a6 keyboard) on Osc 2 (and sweep it with a cv signal), and Osc 1 is playing a wide static chord (no cv input). It sounds remarkably like the CS80, but you MUST keep the pre and post mix levels low, or they will make the sound fizzy (thanks to the "A6 Tips and Tricks" pdf file for that HUUUGE sonic quality tip).
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CoolColJ



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do you have a CS80 or access to one? Cool

A6 has been my CS80 type substitute fix, it does some similar things Smile
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pulsewave



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nope, just the crappy Arturia CS-80v (which is about $9,955 less than the real thing..), the Arturia has midi stepping problems that are reaaally bad.

I agree the A6 can get close to the recordings that I've heard of the CS80, it just takes some meticulous programming and watching the levels like a hawk.

If you want to hear the cs80 ring mod used to it's max capability check out the avant garde album by Vangelis called Beaubourg. It's not like his other records and is highly experimental electronic music, and is really a masterpiece in my mind. Extremely difficult to make beautiful sounding random electronic sounds, but he does it.
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sunny pedaal



Joined: Nov 16, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

does the PANEL setting of TXTHIN ( to dense ) also affect the stepping/ smoothness ?
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I developed a patching trick some time ago that applies recursive modulation on an envelope, thus turning it into an integrator: an adjustable low pass filter for modulation signals, equivalent to the lag processor in the Oberheim Matrix12/Xpander.

I sometimes use this to smooth out a coarse 7 bit MIDI controller on a critical modulation to the full internal 16 bit resolution. You'll have to sacrifice an envelope for this though and have some sluggishness (which however can be adjusted to fit the purpose as best as possible).

Here's how to set it up:
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-37431.html

Maybe this helps.

cheers,
t
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sunny pedaal



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

certainly going to try that one !
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CoolColJ



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one!

That's one thing I like about the A6, it has emergent behaviour not thought of by the original creators Smile
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pulsewave



Joined: Jun 26, 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow Tim, that lag processor work around is AMAZING! Its ironic, but I was going to write in my earlier post "if only the A6 had some slew generators!". This is a major upgrade to the A6. That is, no-one would have a serious analog modular without a bank of lag generators.

I noticed that you mentioned that the lag kicks in every time the key is struck. I set up the envelope to lag the Osc pitch via the mod wheel (move the mod wheel and the pitch glides gradually and smoothly).
When the wheel is set (static) at half way, and I re-press a note, the note glides up from the initial osc frequency to the frequency set by the mod wheel (like portamento). Would there be any way to avoid this (somehow trick the a6 to think that the key is always down?). (i.e. The note would only slide when the mod wheel moves, not when the key is re-hit).
Hope that makes sense.

-jed
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pulsewave wrote:
Wow Tim, that lag processor work around is AMAZING! Its ironic, but I was going to write in my earlier post "if only the A6 had some slew generators!". This is a major upgrade to the A6. That is, no-one would have a serious analog modular without a bank of lag generators.

I noticed that you mentioned that the lag kicks in every time the key is struck. I set up the envelope to lag the Osc pitch via the mod wheel (move the mod wheel and the pitch glides gradually and smoothly).
When the wheel is set (static) at half way, and I re-press a note, the note glides up from the initial osc frequency to the frequency set by the mod wheel (like portamento). Would there be any way to avoid this (somehow trick the a6 to think that the key is always down?). (i.e. The note would only slide when the mod wheel moves, not when the key is re-hit).
Hope that makes sense.

-jed

Yes, it makes total sense and that's what I meant by the lag kicking in with every new note-on message. Unfortunately the envelopes appear to be resetted for one calculation instance, regardless of envelope modes (normal, analog, legato etc.), which is weird, as theoretically the "analog" setting should leave the current envelope level untouched at a new note-on message. And it does -sometimes. But now and then the envelope gets zeroed after all, and has to "pick up" again, producing that glide in your example.
Modifying the trigger/retrigger settings doesn't help either -I've tried all permutations. I also tried feedbacking the (modulatable) envelope sustain level, but that doesn't work.

If the LFOs had 2 MOD slots (or the CROUTEs would feature software destinations), then one could try this feedback trick on a 100% duty cycle (=DC) pulsewave. But as it is, envelopes are the only way.

So this is unfortunately as good as it gets.

cheers,
t
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pulsewave



Joined: Jun 26, 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, strange that the 'analog' setting is effected by a re-strike of the key.

As a work around, I was trying to think of a way control the amount of lag with a separate controller.
Here's what I did to control the 'mod wheel's lag amount' with the ribbon controller:

-Set up the osc mod 1 to env 1 (mod level = 0) which lags the mod wheel.
-Set osc mod 2 to mod wheel (mod level = 100) controlling osc freq.
-CROUTE the ribbon controller (at level 100) to control Osc Mod 1.
-CROUTE the ribbon controller (at level -100) to control Osc Mod 2.

So set the ribbon controller to 'hold' and tap on the left side, the CROUTE initiates Osc Mod 2 (mod wheel with no lag), slide your finger to the right and the CROUTE will gradually decrease Osc Mod 2 and increase Osc Mod 1 which is lagging the mod wheel via the envelope and you'll get more glide.

I haven't looked into using lag with the s&h yet. Not sure if this 'lag amount' trick would work for other mod destinations.

jed
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