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Recording guitar in Logic.
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:09 am    Post subject: Recording guitar in Logic. Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Having worked in Logic for a couple of years now, I'm getting relatively comfortable in that environment. However, I'm experiencing a few problems when recording electric guitars, especially overdrive sounds, as I can't seem to get rid of the original, unprocessed guitar signal. Sometimes, this is a bonus, of course, because of the nice mix of the clean sound's very quick transient and the overdrive sounds more violin-like transient. Most of the time, though, I want just the amp sound off Native Instruments' Guitar Rig or Logic's own Amp Pro.
My setup is an iMac running the latest version of Logic, my soundcard is a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Obviously I can use my Pod LiveXT, but sometimes I'd like to take advantage of the possibilities offered by Amp Pro and Guitar Rig. So far, I haven't been able to lose the original signal, although I've been able to sort of "camouflaging" it by turning the "cab" level in Guitar Rig ridiculously loud, which obliges me to turn the mixer channel WAY down.
Any tips? Please?

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I´m not really experienced with guitar in Logic, but what about slamming in the effect as a channel insert and then not mix the original signal with the wet signal? Most plugins have a have a fairy accessible interface that includes a dry/wet control.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Use a steady and firm grip when performing the insert procedure. Shocked
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aha, you see it as a virtual suppository? Shocked
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oskar wrote:
Aha, you see it as a virtual suppository? Shocked



Should I? scratch

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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll look into that, but I thought I'd already tried the insert trick, but we shall see...
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, insert.. and then humping the knob to the all wet position should do the trick.



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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Didn't really work... Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, an all wet signal is an all wet signal... Don´t leak the guitar somewhere else .. did you check ??
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How is your routing?

You have one track of guitar. You then insert a plugin. You dial the signal all wet. Then there should not be any leaks anywhere else.. unless you are an albino with a wiki...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll pull up the Logic project I created for recording my acoustic guitar and NodeBeat (iPhone app) improvised duet.

Then, I'll try removing the reverb plugin and replacing it with Amp Pro, then re-bouncing the tracks with the acoustic guitar track going through Amp Pro.

This should be interesting - I have had trouble removing a plugin from track once I've inserted the plugin. Logic 8 can be very frustrating for me to use in ways like that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
How is your routing?

You have one track of guitar. You then insert a plugin. You dial the signal all wet. Then there should not be any leaks anywhere else.. unless you are an albino with a wiki...


Well yes, I've sort of tried that, but then I have to turn the tracks mix fader WAAAAY down, which gives me little room for adjustment, plus I for some reason prefer to have most faders around unity gain, or whatever it's called. Also, even with an all wet insert I still get an audible original signal in there.

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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GovernorSilver wrote:
I'll pull up the Logic project I created for recording my acoustic guitar and NodeBeat (iPhone app) improvised duet.

Then, I'll try removing the reverb plugin and replacing it with Amp Pro, then re-bouncing the tracks with the acoustic guitar track going through Amp Pro.

This should be interesting - I have had trouble removing a plugin from track once I've inserted the plugin. Logic 8 can be very frustrating for me to use in ways like that.


Cheers, Guv! I'll have another couple of stabs at it meself. I'm wondering if I may be doing something wrong with the soundcard too, it's got a hellishly complex routing and mixing software in itself. Also, could I possibly have overlooked some sort of global settings in Logic?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

scratch


Perhaps these plugins actually do throw in a smurf of original signal??




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oskar wrote:
Well yes, I've sort of tried that, but then I have to turn the tracks mix fader WAAAAY down, which gives me little room for adjustment, plus I for some reason prefer to have most faders around unity gain, or whatever it's called. Also, even with an all wet insert I still get an audible original signal in there.


?

scratch

Sounds like the input signal is too hot.

BTW, you remember the -18dB rule? in digital recording the old analog 0dB is -18 dB.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tried to ease off on the gain - all the way down. Seems to improve matters. Still not completely happy, though.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I must admit I would think it was quite hard to get the original and processed guitar at the same time!

Is this just when recording or also on playback of the track.

If it was recording only I would think some kind of monitoring issue with the audio device, if it is on playback as well then some kind of routing issue in Logic.

What one is it?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also you are using the plugin on an 'insert' and not on a 'send'?
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Well I must admit I would think it was quite hard to get the original and processed guitar at the same time!

Is this just when recording or also on playback of the track.

If it was recording only I would think some kind of monitoring issue with the audio device, if it is on playback as well then some kind of routing issue in Logic.

What one is it?


I got both signals both while recording and afterwards. I also thought there might be a monitoring/routing issue, but now I'm not sure. I tried Stein's suggestion of reducing the gain on the soundcard, and that seemed to minimise the amount of original signal. I'll get back to it eventually, then let you know...

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DES



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have you tried running Guitar Rig by itself outside of Logic? If you still get the mix then it's probably something to do with ASIO monitoring. (assuming you're using an interface with ASIO.). Which audio interface are you using?

Also...in Logic...are you feeding a signal from the channel to an Aux Send like for reverb for example? If so...make sure that the point where that Aux is tapping from is AFTER the insert effect slot. Try turning all Aux returns off and see if that helps.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If it effects playback then it will not be input monitoring.

I am just about to write a little tutorial to follow, my bet is that gtr rig or whatever is being used as a send rather than an insert.

Watch this space.... (once logic has finished scanning my plugins again)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here you go, tell me what stage it all goes wrong Smile

1. Start Logic

2. File->new, then choose empty project

3. The New Tracks window appears, set to audio, Mono and choose your input.

Now play that guitar, you should not hear anything at all?

4. Click the little i on the track to turn input monitoring on, now you should hear your guitar?

5. Now click and hold down on the first insert block and choose your amp sim of choice, I have chosen Amp Designer

6. Now play you should only hear the output of amp designer and not the original signal. To check this turn down the gain and master on the amp and now you should not be able to hear anything?


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DES



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The last time I used Logic was the last version they had for Windows! Smile

My thought was if he had something like RME's Total Mix he could be routing signal back into Logic. I had something similar happen while using an external processor...drove me nuts for several weeks till I figured out it was Total Mix that was messing things up.

The other thought was if Logic was actually recording the clean guitar and it was being output to an AUX (and subsequently back into the mix), that could be what he's hearing. Reaper has a feature where it will record the input signal - not the post effect signal. While monitoring you do get the effected signal as on playback. Not sure if Logic has that now or not.

Your tutorial though should help narrow it down.

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Oskar



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Andy, it worked! Or rather, I followed your instructions, and when I still got the signal I opened the Focusrite's routing/monitoring control software "Saffire Control" and niggled at it until I killed the signal. Then, when I turned on the "Input monitor" switch in Logic, hey presto! it sang like a bird! Thanks a bundle, mate!
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