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TR808 kick pcb
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bubzy



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject: TR808 kick pcb Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

***UNTESTED***

will test and etch this later. hopefully it works, used all the original schematic part numbers.
approx 88x55mm

**Attachments deleted. please see further post for a verified pcb layout**

Last edited by bubzy on Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:44 pm; edited 9 times in total
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Attachment? Confused
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bubzy



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, the new zip is up, its in expresspcb format. its taken from the schematic available at http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TR-808/
page 6

ive followed it as closely as i could. there are a few things that im not entirely sure about, such as what the difference between the TRIG and the BD inputs to the circuit perhaps someone could clear that up.
also there is a cap marked c?, this is the cap that runs to GND on the far right of the schematic after Q44 i dont know what its value is although it says 22 on it (not sure if theres a digit missing here)
****edit : this cap is C48 and is 220p****
the cap marked c5? is marked as i dont know the actual part number for this, im assuming from the schematic that its a 1uf/50v cap but thats just my guess.
****edit : the value is correct and its C50****
ive taken B2 as +v as this seems to make the most sense, cannot find references to B2 anywhere else and the opamp has B2 as the +v input.

Q40 is PNP 2SA733 all others are NPN 2Sc945 the op amp is a jrc4558 although it matches the pinout of a TL series opamp so one of these may(or may not) work

ive probably missed a boatload of info out, so ask away (im really not very good at all this but i might be able to help)

x,y,z are jumpers as its a single sided layout, i didnt really think about the position of them until too late. the power caps are rough values, use your favourites.
off to etch this and try it out myself

-bubzy

Last edited by bubzy on Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Re. 808 trigger circuits -

Please read page 4 on "Trigger Gates" of the service manual:

http://ericarcher.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/808-svc-man.pdf

...or page 36 of the MB-808 build manual:

http://www.eight-oh-eight.org/Assembly/MB-808_Manual_Beta.pdf


To be succinct, the 808 needs a simultaneous trigger pulse AND an accent pulse with a varying voltage that determines the loudness of the instrument.

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bubzy



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, thats a real nice project over there. so many things to make me doubt the reason i even made this pcb in the first place :s
Ill stick at it for a while and see if i can manage a functional bass drum module. thanks for the link, some really useful information there!
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bubzy



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so forgive me if im being an idiot. but it seems possible that the BD input is the accent input and this can be a voltage divider to change the "accentuation" of the sound output while the other input is just a normal trigger in for the circuit?
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Sebo



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bubzy wrote:
so forgive me if im being an idiot. but it seems possible that the BD input is the accent input and this can be a voltage divider to change the "accentuation" of the sound output while the other input is just a normal trigger in for the circuit?


Yes, you can, I did it when I was testing my 808 clone.
By the way, I used the PCBs from this site:
http://xlargex.xl.funpic.de/
I used the 3 big ones, but I see other people used the individual ones.

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bubzy



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, whaddya know. as expected someone has already done a much better job.]

http://xlargex.xl.funpic.de/projects/808/docs/808bdV1.0.pdf
ty for that link sebo
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Sebo



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alse check:
http://www.msc175.de/
909 & 808 clones there. I'm about to build the 808 MIDI interface from there, as I'm not very happy with the one I built.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing
alas, i recently started to lay out my own PCBs for a 808 clone. i like the sounds much more than the 909...
my plan was to have just the sound modules and to use a 16 or 32 step sequencer.

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Sebo



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Fonik:
If you going to layout some 808 sounds, take in account that there are some errors in the original schematics. There is good info at the eight-oh-eight site about them.
For example I couldn't get the clap sounding right, then I read there, that there is an electrolitic cap that is reversed in the original schematic (and in the microLARGE PCB too), I reversed it, and the clap start to sound right.
Also there are corrections to the noise circuit (they appear in the service manual but not in the schematic), and some other things.

I did all the mods in microLARGE site, plus a few that occurred to me, and most of the mods worth it, except a few that aren't so great.

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stewpye



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you want to feed the bass drum variable voltage triggers of appropriate width you can just leave out Q39 and Q40 and insert the trigger into where the collector of Q40 would go. Then you can use a midi to trigger converter with velocity sensitive trigger outputs or a sequencer with variable trigger outputs.

Stew.
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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo - which xlarge mods did you not like?

I love all the ones I did:

- white noise level
- snare decay
- snare filter
- clap offset
- clap reverb amount (not on xlarge site)
- maraca filter
- rimshot filter
- cowbell tuning x2
- open hat filter
- closed hat filter
- white & pink noise input jacks
- schmitt trigger input jacks
- self-oscillation of congas when the decay is set all the way

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-336579.html#336579

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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
Hi Fonik:
If you going to layout some 808 sounds, take in account that there are some errors in the original schematics. There is good info at the eight-oh-eight site about them.
For example I couldn't get the clap sounding right, then I read there, that there is an electrolitic cap that is reversed in the original schematic (and in the microLARGE PCB too), I reversed it, and the clap start to sound right.
Also there are corrections to the noise circuit (they appear in the service manual but not in the schematic), and some other things.

thumleft
thank's for the hint. appreciated.

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Sebo



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sneakthief wrote:
Sebo - which xlarge mods did you not like?

I love all the ones I did:

- white noise level
- snare decay
- snare filter
- clap offset
- clap reverb amount (not on xlarge site)
- maraca filter
- rimshot filter
- cowbell tuning x2
- open hat filter
- closed hat filter
- white & pink noise input jacks
- schmitt trigger input jacks
- self-oscillation of congas when the decay is set all the way

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-336579.html#336579


From your list:

- White noise level: I didn't liked so much, and I was short of space in the front panel.
- Clap Offset: Idem. As a side note the clap offset of the 909 clap is much more interesting.
- Clap reverb amount: I didn't implemented, but I think it will be a great addition if I find a spot in the frontpanel.
- Cowbell tunning: I did it, but I found very difficult to tune the original sound of the cowbell, hihhats and cymbal, so I use a switch to to select between the pots and 2 trimmers calibrated as said in the original manual.
- White & Pink Noise & Schmitt Triggers input: I dind't implemented, but I'm thinking of it, specially the Schmitt trigger one.
- Self Oscilation of Congas: I didn't liked at all, it was unusefull to me. I limited the decay time with a resistor to avoid it. This resistors are only in use when in conga mode, so they don't affect the toms.

Another mods I didn't liked or not implemented:

- Bass Drum Xtra Decay: I have implemented, but I barely use it, because it almost don't have effect until the self oscillation start, and I don't like when in self oscillation.
- Clap Filter: I didn't liked at first, when the clap was working bad, so I just use a trimmer to set it to my taste, but when the clap start to work well, and I re-calibrated, I missed the option to have it on the frontpanel.

Right now I have some issues:
The clap reverb sometimes didn't trigger.
The clave don't sound like the 808 clave at all.
The MIDI interface is a little bit slow (I used a modded MIDIbox CV), the accents sometimes are a little behind the trigger, so the accent is randomly skipped. That's why I'm building the MSC175 MIDI interface, plus it have velocity for every sound.

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:

From your list:

- White noise level: I didn't liked so much, and I was short of space in the front panel.

Maybe this is a bit redundant with the snappy and clap offset controls, but I like having the maximum amount of sonic possibilities.

Sebo wrote:

- Clap Offset: Idem. As a side note the clap offset of the 909 clap is much more interesting.


Oh I love range of this, from ghost claps (just reverb) to full-on crunchy distorted slaps.

Sebo wrote:

- Clap reverb amount: I didn't implemented, but I think it will be a great addition if I find a spot in the frontpanel.


I liked this one, but what I'd prefer is the clap timing mod but Erich Archer never replied to my request for info:

http://ericarcher.net/devices/clap-raca/

Sebo wrote:


- Cowbell tunning: I did it, but I found very difficult to tune the original sound of the cowbell, hihhats and cymbal, so I use a switch to to select between the pots and 2 trimmers calibrated as said in the original manual.



Not a bad idea! I'm not so concerned about having it exactly the same as the original. Besides, I can tune it close enough by ear.



Sebo wrote:

- White & Pink Noise & Schmitt Triggers input: I dind't implemented, but I'm thinking of it, specially the Schmitt trigger one.




Don't underestimate the craziness of the white-noise input mod, eg. this:
http://fourpolesapart.blogspot.com/2011/03/not-your-average-tr808.html


Sebo wrote:

The clap reverb sometimes didn't trigger.


This is normal for every 808.


What about the filters for the maracas, claves and hats?

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Sebo



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I didn't know about 808's clap reverb didn't trigger always. I have a friend that have an original 808, I will listen to it.

The tuning of the Schmitt Trigger affects High Hats and Cymbal, and is very hard to tune it like the original hats/cymbal. And the hats/cymbal sounds great with the original tunning, remember that the 6 frequencies of the schmitt trigger interacts in a very unique way. Cowbell is easier to tune (you hear only 2 frequencies).

The filter of the hats are great for some build up filter thing, but I mostly use them as an EQ.
The filter of the Rimshot is nice, if you set it low, gets closer to a 909 rimshot, but I use it more of the time close to the original setting.
When I set it to clave the filtering is a lot of fun, specially when retuning the oscillators, but, as I said, my clave didn't sound like an 808 clave.
The filter of the maraca is like the Hats, but I use it very up all the time, I like very high filtered maracas.

The Tune and Tune Envelope mods of the Bassdrum are totally great. You can get really punchy BDs.

I will post some pictures...

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effegee



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
If you going to layout some 808 sounds, take in account that there are some errors in the original schematics. There is good info at the eight-oh-eight site about them.
For example I couldn't get the clap sounding right, then I read there, that there is an electrolitic cap that is reversed in the original schematic (and in the microLARGE PCB too), I reversed it, and the clap start to sound right.
Also there are corrections to the noise circuit (they appear in the service manual but not in the schematic), and some other things.


Sebo,
Do you have info about which cap is reversed on the schematic? I got a PCB for Eric Archer's Clap Raca and I cannot get it to sound like the 808 clap. It's based off of the 808/909 (more closely, the 909) circuit with some mods and a power supply circuit plus trigger input. The clap consists of a four-attack envelope, but I can't get the four peaks, just one attack. I've tried tweaking a few component values, but to no avail. And now the eight-oh-eight site you referred to is completely gone. Please help!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm.... I had trouble accessing the 808 site too. Do you think that in the light of the recent analogue direction from Korg (monotron and tribe), that Roland may be working the analogue wonder again and are stomping out competition?

They've (Roland) done in before, when my favourite ever overdrive AU got pulled (and thus ended my musical career, because I could never get 'my sound' again!).

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sneakthief



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Re. eight-oh-eight.org being down - Doug Wellington is supposedly working on it:

Quote:
OK, guys, the http://www.eight-oh-eight.org web site is down. Please don't panic! I'll get with Jeff and sort it out...

http://midibox.org/forums/topic/15295-doug-wellington-mb-808-contact-status/page__view__findpost__p__140784


Re. reversed cap: C144 is backwards.

The TR-808 service manual says this:

"When the level of pin 5 of IC23 becomes higher than the level of pin 4 due to discharging, pin 2 of IC23 reverses again and C144 is recharged to -15V."

So it's obvious that C144 can't recharge to -15V unless it's reversed and the positive is connected to ground.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool! Very Happy
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Sebo



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeap, C144 in the original schematic (0.47uF).
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I reversed the cap and got a brief moment of the familiar clap sound, albeit with hum, but when I wiggled the wires while turning the pots, it degenerated to a low frequency, saw wave burst. It sounds worse than ever, so I think I may have fried an IC or something. Anyone know of a self-contained (with power supply circuit) handclap project out there? The one I tried was a prototype with no guarantees. I'm also looking for a rimshot unit.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds more like bad soldering to me. If you 'wiggled' some wires round, and the sound 'changed' you also got hum to boot, you've definitely got bad joints!

And welcome to electro-music.com effegee! Very Happy

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Sebo



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It sounds to me like the white noise input is disconnected or the noise circuit isn't working, start checking out that.
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