Kyma as an effects processor

paugui · Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: Kyma as an effects processor

How good is the Kyma when it comes to external processing?

Can it get good musical results with the spectacularity of an Eventide, or is it better at experimentation?

Thanks in advance

Paulo

Muied Lumens · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject:

I don't know if Kyma can completely replace your Eventide, but it's a lot more flexible. Maybe the Harmonisers have the edge in their particular type of pitchshifting, since that is their speciality. It is hard to compare them though, as Kyma just does so much more, even if you only use it for live processing.

paugui · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject:

I wish I had a proper Eventide Razz

Unfortunately I only have an HM80, probably the cheapest model they did, but it still has a nice sound, despite I think mine should have the inside cleaned.

That's also why I'm asking this, cause to get an Eventide H3000D/SE I'd likely have to spend around 700 euros, but I don't think it offers the possibilities the Kyma does, and I already have other nice effects processors, including two Korg A1s and a Sony DPS-V77 for multi-effects, a Roland R880 and a Dynacord DRP20 for reverbs, a Symmetrix 606 and a Roland SRE-555 for delays, so I was thinking it could be better spend a bit more and get a Kyma, especially if it can do some nice processing too.

In what ways is the Kyma more flexible?
And excluding the harmonizer effects, are the effects of the Kyma as good as the ones in the Eventide?

Also, with an old model (I don't think I can afford a Paca or a Pacarana soon...), will it still have enough power to do some complex effects?

Thanks

Paulo

Muied Lumens · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject:

Hmmm... You could get a Capybara 360 with the stock cards and that would compare pretty well to a Harmonizer in terms of processing power alone. Prices are coming down I think. However...

Kyma is a modular type sound design workstation, and have just about everything you need to explore synthesis and composition ideas, plus a few things you won't find anywhere else. It's sound quality is absolutely superb, and I don't think you would have any problems emulating most personality traits of an Eventide. It has a steep and long learning curve, and does things in slightly unorthodox ways. Not everyone likes the Smalltalk type language you use for parameter fields either, and I can testify that it takes all you've got to get to know Kyma. I have long been a hardware kinda guy so it has been a big culture shock for me.

If you are curious about Kyma it is worth ordering "Kyma X Revealed" from Symbolic Sound to get an idea of what it's all about. One thing to remember though, it is deep, very deep. Very very deep.

paugui · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject:

Is that book available as PDF, or it's only possible to buy it?

If I get a Capybara 360, can I use it with my iMac G5, or do I need a PCI board?

Also, is it worth getting one without any expansion?
Is it still powerful enough, or will I feel I need more power as soon as I start learning how to use it?

And what's the current going price for one?

Another thing that worries me is the learning curve...
I am studying abroad, so I don't get too much time at home to use my equipment...
Will it still be worth getting one considering this?

I'd guess the Eventides are not that easy to use either, so if there is a nice set of patches available, it would probably still be a better choice...

Muied Lumens · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject:

I don't think there is a pdf available, maybe you can find the book second hand somewhere.

I am pretty sure your iMac will be ok, but I don't know for sure. I do think that you will soon want to expand it though if you get a Capy... It is very demading on your time unless you are already very stable in programming, maths, DSP, synthesis and so on... Trust me, any Eventide is fairly easy to use compared to Kyma. Wink

Remember that the type of environment that Kyma offers also is roughly available in Supercollider, Reaktor, Max, Plogue etc... For much less money, if that is the way you want to go.

As for prices, I'm really don't know... I see them around but don't remember any prices offhand. My advice would be to wait, and get a Paca at least, when you can afford one.

You know what they say... Either invest your money or invest your time, not both at once. Well, I wasn't listening. Mr. Green

paugui · Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject:

But are those other languages as powerful?
And are there many algorithms available for them too?

Cause that could be an interesting idea too...

However, since the learning curve is step, I was wondering if it would be really worth getting into them if I plan to get a Kyma...

Wouldn't it be better to learn how to use one properly instead?

And if that's the case, I'd guess the Kyma is the best investment, considering also the computational power given by the hardware and the community / costumer support, despite being paid, right?

Also, since you said it would be wiser to wait and get a newer system, is it possible to come up with the same kind of quality from the Nord Modulars, or is it completely different?

When I check new presets from this forum, I usually notice that I there is a lot I don't understand yet, so I'm wondering if it wouldn't be indeed a better idea to explore more my modulars (especially since I have 2 G2Xs a G1 expanded and a MM) and when the Paca or Pacarana drops in price, or when I find a cheap Capybara, I try to get it...

Thanks again for your help

Paulo

Muied Lumens · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:29 am Post subject:

paugui · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:06 pm Post subject:

I got a Scope board with 6 DSPs recently, but I still have to check how to get the Modular to work, cause the previous owner said to me it was running, but I wasn't able to run it so far...

But I thought the Scope was more similar to the G2, at least in term of interface...
Can it do similar things to Kyma, or the FFT processing and convolution are not possible (I think the modular has sampling modules, right?).
I was also thinking of expanding this system, if I am pleased with modular, but was considering it more as another tool rather than a substitute for Kyma, but given the prices of the Scope boards and the Kyma ones... it would be much cheaper just to expand my Scope system Razz

By the way, from those languages, which one do you think is the best to start with?

GovernorSilver · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:08 pm Post subject:

BobTheDog posted several demos of his Kyma being used as a guitar processor.

paugui · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject:

BobTheDog · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-244368.html#244368

That is a little walkthrough I did.

Don't get a Kyma system if you want fast results though, I think it takes years to learn.

Acoustic Interloper · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject:

I've been using my Pacarana as an outbound effects processor with Live, partly because I don't have time to learn it soup-to-nuts before performing with it, and partly because I like to do overall arrangements and mixing in Live.

So far I have been tweaking patches that come with it (so-called "Sounds") rather than designing them from scratch, and using them as outbound FX. This includes sounds synthesized by the Java MIDI library, live banjo and guitar samples that have already been processed somewhat in Live, whatever audio stream I feel like running through Kyma.

I am extremely impressed with the sound quality. I don't know if I would have spent the money, but I got it via a grant, and am glad I did. If I had to pay out of pocket, I'd probably go with SuperCollider for starters. More mandatory programming, but I am a programmer. SC patches I have heard indicate excellent quality of the ugens, and it can do FFT, etc. Also, I don't see much load on my MacBook Pro dual core CPU, and if you are running multiple audio processing programs, then taking advantage of 4 or more cores should be automatic without multithreaded audio engines. I suspect multicores will cut into Kyma's CPU argument, but the sound quality is a good argument for getting one.

Muied Lumens · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject:

paugui · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject:

paugui · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject:

paugui · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject:

Muied Lumens · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject:

Acoustic Interloper · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject:

paugui · Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject:

I'll try to post some samples of the code I developed for Mathematica in here tomorrow.
I need to clean the laptop first... I'm running out of space in my HD :S

By the way, is this a reasonable machine to get, or way too outdated:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Kyma-Capybara-System-66-voll-Aufgerustet-fully-expanded-/270804396629?pt=Studioequipment&hash=item3f0d332a55#ht_3688wt_714

I guess the price is not good, since that guy usually puts the prices as high as possible, but since it's fully expanded, it could still be powerful enough, and it's not way too much cash for it...

Muied Lumens · Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:55 am Post subject:

Hmmm, I wouldn't get such an old system unless given to me...

Specs are here: http://www.symbolicsound.com/kyma-capyinfo.html

Muied Lumens · Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:03 am Post subject:

BTW have you seen this thread on gearslutz? Lots of info in it, even if it is a couple of years now.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/343085-kyma-compared-max-msp-nord-modular.html

ikarus · Joined: Oct 04, 2009 Posts: 20 Location: uk

Hi paulo

i have both kyma and h8000 on and off over the years and they are different worlds.I tried many patches in kyma that i made for the h8000 using large reverb and picth shifting combined with delay and the results are very different.I dont think kyma has the tone or depth of the H8000's sound at all , an eventide will always have a certain sound and Kyma also.

For me Kyma 's power is in resynthesis and cross synthesis and convolution etc and all that side , fragmenting , granular etc.

H8000 is just a very high end multi fx which can combine multiple reverbs of the highest quality with pitching and everything else in between in 1 patch !

They cant replace each other.

Of course that does not mean Kyma isnt a great external fx processor , its great on a send and return of a mixer or 2 and i do love its own reverbs and delays etc which have a character of their own.