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DS 7 clone
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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 508
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Completed the first of three DS8s last night with Marc's PCBs. It works great even with the wrong value pots, but I do get some very soft high-pitched bleed of background sound after the decay has completed. I suspect it's because my level pot is pretty old and the soldering all over needs a tidy up.

Has anyone else had to solve this ?

I also find that the noise is a bit crackly, but that could be the tiny amp I'm monitoring with , need to try the guitar amp.

Here's the big question, the wiring diagram very casually tells me to connect pot legs to ground, but doesn't specify the best place to do that. Are they meant to go anywhere along the ground line, or be specifically connected close to the power supply?

Loving the DS8 !

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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, reading the rest of the posts in this thread solved many issues! Embarassed

So things are ok, I'm getting a lot of static, but I think if I can get the unit housed in a decent case that should tone itself down. Per Marc's website instructions, i replaced R30 with a 470k resistor to pump up the level some. Still there's a lot of buzz going on, need to do something about that.

I'm also shopping for a good preamp circuit if anyone has one they love using. Maybe runoffgroove.com has something.

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joshco



Joined: Nov 14, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Completed also, one of Marc´s Ds8. The Circuit works but only Trigger, Noise, LFO and VCA. The VCO makes no sound. I have checked wiring, Capacitors, changed IC´s, checked Power Conections and Ground.
I have a small Scope and a Multimeter.

Any Ideas where i should be able to measure the VCO Triangle or Wave? or what to looking for?


Thanks!
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t3hsheepdog



Joined: Jun 22, 2007
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Location: philadelphia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hello! I'm trying to do the DS8 build, but I have some questions about the parts list:

-resistor 31 is listed as "NC"... what does that mean?
-capacitor c1 and c2 is 3u3; c11 is 4n7 .... I've never heard of this capacitor coding; would you please explain?
-I can find certain ICs, but not the exact parts list. the CA3080 has been discontinued, is there an alternative?
-similarly, I can't find a chip that just says "lm324" but chips that have "lm324" in the name... like this page for example: http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=lm324 which of these would or would not be ok to use?

I might just try the DS7 since there seems to be a more guaranteed success rate. thanks!
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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 564
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi:
1 - NC usually means Not Connected, so you have to omit this part, not sure what this mean in this circuit as I didn't finish it.
2 - 3u3 means 3.3 uF (micro Farads) and 4n7 means 4.7 nF (nano Farads)
3 - The CA3080 is discontinued but is avalaible in many stores. LM13700 are dual OTAs that can replace the 3080 (you have to take in account that have twice the legs).
4 - All chips listed in your link are LM324, so all will work. Only take into account that some of them are SMD and others are thru hole, for this project you have to use thru hole, so LM324N or LM324NA are the ones you should buy.
Hope this helps.

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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm, I'm getting the same problem of the lfo and vco bleeding into the mix at a low level.

I wonder if the issue is with the pcbs? at some points the traces are very close to each other.

I'll try the 100n capacitors on the IC power rails but I'm not sure what else to try.

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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Might as well add my pic to the bunch. Smile 3x DS8s

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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acidblue



Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 226
Location: The Darkside

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For the trigger could I use a LFO?
I have a few 555 timers lying around was thinking of wiring one of them
up in astable mode, would that also work?
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darkomen



Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I just finished my dual DS-7s, but I have one problem. When I power it up it automatically starts making this high pitched noise (this happens on both of them). When I trigger it it works fine (and sounds awesome), but once the noise is done it goes right back to the high pitched noise. Anyone ever encounter this before, or have a possible solution?

Here's a pic of what I have:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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darkomen



Joined: Jun 21, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So one thing I notice is if I move around my ds7 is changes pitch, so I'm pretty sure it's picking up some kind of signal (noise). Could this be because of my rat's nest of wires (as seen in the pic above)? If I moved it to a better case (say an aluminium or plastic case) could that prevent the noise, or would shortening the wires and make better connections be better?
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not totally sure.... but maybe the bodies of your pots all need to be grounded? Someone else more experienced should be able to confirm or deny this. Also, it looks like your stripboard is flipped with the copper side facing up. Haven't seen this before. Was it difficult to solder that way? I don't think this would be your problem though... I'm yet to get around to this project, but it's on my list!
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darkomen



Joined: Jun 21, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
I'm not totally sure.... but maybe the bodies of your pots all need to be grounded? Someone else more experienced should be able to confirm or deny this. Also, it looks like your stripboard is flipped with the copper side facing up. Haven't seen this before. Was it difficult to solder that way? I don't think this would be your problem though... I'm yet to get around to this project, but it's on my list!


I'm going to try grounding all of the pots, as well as tidying up the the wiring and place in a better frame, and hopefully that does the trick.
The tracks are actually on the bottom, there are lines painted on top just so you know where the tracks are.
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jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, I just got Marc's DS-8 PCB up and running, and my biggest problem appears to be the trigger/envelope. My unit runs continuously, and triggering it with either a piezo or SH101 gate signal gives me no results. I did a pass to clean up my solders and double check for mistakes, but I see nothing obvious.

A second problem is that the noise/vco mix pot never quite mutes the VCO. I can completely silence the noise at CW, but at CCW there is still a little VCO in there. Is this correct?

The one thing I have done that could be relevant to the trigger issue is that I am running wires from the timing cap holes (C1) to an on-on switch on the panel. I did this because I want the option of a faster envelope. So what happens is that two wires run from the positive PCB hole. One wire runs to the positive leg of a 2.2uf cap, and the other runs to the positive leg of a 3.3uf cap. The negative leg of one cap is connected to the top of the switch, the negative leg of the other to the bottom. Then a wire runs out of the middle lug of the switch to the negative PCB hole.

So let me know if anyone has ideas about what is disabling my envelope. It doesn't seem to me like my timing switch would be the problem, but I've never tried this before so who knows. If this isn't the correct approach, perhaps someone has some advice about making a timing switch.

Otherwise, the unit sounds pretty cool; I can't wait to finish it up!
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bubzy



Joined: Oct 27, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: weird effect on ds7 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there, this is my first post to the forums.
i have built the ds7 from the pcb layout here and from the schematics on marc's site. i am experiencing some weird "effects" from it though and it sounds nothing like the ones i have seen on youtube. i have a 2mlog pot as my delay and if i turn it to max there is a HUGE gap inbetween the "trigger" ands the actual sound coming out. additionally everytime i "trigger" the device (using a piezo) i hear a click soming out of the speakers, if i need to post pictures or sound examples let me know and ill pu them up, thanks very much in advance.

Bubzy
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jumunius



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: weird effect on ds7 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bubzy wrote:
additionally everytime i "trigger" the device (using a piezo) i hear a click soming out of the speakers, if i need to post pictures or sound examples let me know and ill pu them up, thanks very much in advance.
Bubzy


Well, since I can't even get my envelope to trigger, I can't comment on my experience running a trigger through this circuit. However, I wonder if maybe some improved trigger conditioning would help. I've noticed this click problem using a piezo on another project I built (Synare clone) as well. I think piezos or any mechanically-generated pulse are a little "unclean".

There's a trigger conditioner circuit in Thomas Henry's Electronic Drum Cookbook (available at Magic Smoke Electronics). I notice it runs its signal through a capacitor first, and I wonder if this might help filter the erratic clicks, etc. I'm thinking of building one of these... I think one benefit is that it puts out a consistent trigger without the need for a pot. That way if you are like me and mounted a trigger pot on your front panel, that would no longer be necessary... you just run your piezo or any other input through the trigger conditioner first.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong -- I still don't really know what I'm talking about. Very Happy
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ericcoleridge



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Posts: 889
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so, does someone here have a PCB layout for the DS7 or DS8?
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bubzy



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

read through this thread dude, theres a pcb for the ds7 here. alternatively you can google "ds7 clone pcb" and i think the image comes up. Smile
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jean bender



Joined: Feb 21, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi everybody !!

Could someone tell me if i can trig a coron Ds 7 or 8 via a baby ten sequencer ? I'd like to build a little drum machine, and it would be perfect...

Thanks for all.

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umschmitt



Joined: Jun 29, 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey hey ! There's even a topic about the legendary DS7 ! What an extensive forum !
Well I built this thing in my early days of electronic tinkering, enthousiastically wanted to improve it, didn't know how to, finally let it rust in its 'temporary' VHS box… I considered it basically a boring 'synth' (ok it's even called a 'synce'). I decided recently to see what I could actually do to make it a better noisebox (I'm sooo good at it now). My plan is to add a further LM324, so 4 more op-amps allowed.

Already done :
* A couple of functional things, jack switching, lil'led @ 5V ( thus indicating depletion of the battery).
* A CV input.
* A switch to toggle between sub (much slower now ) and audio (quite fast) LFO.
* The unleashing of the square wave VCO ! Still needs to be tamed a bit, but really sounds "knurrig" (whatever it could mean) now, and the presence of harmonics allows implementation of
* A (very simple) VCF ! (1 op-amp) A schematics I found around here, adapted to 5V, works fine, with caveats at extreme settings, but that's life.
* An audio input. (1 op-amp) Unlike what I have seen here, the audio modulates the VCO/VCF. Quite funny to explore… Thinked of a feedback loop but with poor results as for now.
* A separate EG for the VCA and the "sweep" (1 op-amp), which allows fast sweeps and long decay. Couldn't reduce the minimum sweep time that much, probably gonna kick the sweep cap there.
This already changes pretty much everything about this beast (pet ?). I also tested by simply touching wires the unleashing of the square LFO and application of the LFO and the sweep to the filter. And I still have a free op-amp.

What I plan now :
* The 100 ohm resistor thing I've seen here to lower notes further
* Solve a problem with the LFO, which tends to raise the pitch as it is fed in the VCO/VCF. Maybe a diode to make minimum value around zero volts. Otherwise I was thinking of a cap at the end of the LFO to make it run AROUND the initial pitch, but I suspect huge problems here.
* I still have to physically implement the LFO switching / attenuating.
* Wouldn't tweaking the reference voltage in the comparator of the LFO bring the possibility to make it ramp up or down (& change PW) ? Didn't try yet.
* My idea for the VCA is to use the "simple AR" schematics seen here, but I'd like the synth to be able to be triggered by a gate /pulse OR audio signal, as it works now. It's a brilliant possibility I'd like to keep. Not sure what I should do there. Maybe simply try…
* Here I definitely need help : I'd like to make the "sweep" thing respond to triggering as if it was a trig or short signal, even if the triggering is a longer gate / longer signal. Any idea, anyone ? Seems I can't think of an easy solution. Arf.
* Then, since enough is never enough, what about another LFO to modulate the VCA ? another EG for the filter ? OK it needs more op-amps…

Well, I just wanted to share these tweaks which radically change the character of the DS7 clone. If anybody is interested, I can explain further any aspect. Otherwise I may simply post the results when I'm done.
If anybody knows a solution for the things I can't figure out, help would be more than welcome !
Cheers !

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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Things are going slowly further. Sweep can be extrafast now, as in "bassdrum thump", LFO has gained a "shape" function (ramp or pulsewidth) which still has to be worked around. The conversion signal > pulse is yet far from satisfactory…
Better than my lousy explanations, here is a little recording showing some of the expanded possibilties of the circuit (expect no music). The sound is just the mutant DS7, no overdubs, no autotune, maybe hints of a DR-220 modulating the VCO at some point. And the lo pot was at max on the mixer 'cos I like it like that.
Tell me what you think !


DS7+ on the bench.jpg
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DS7+ on the bench.jpg



jenseits_des_DS7s.ogg
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finally, after some summer hibernation, a step ahead in the tweaking of the DS-7. I eventually managed to make a schematics (as professional as my test bench) with the modifications already done and working. Still no progress in the signal to trig thing yet.
Some of the things I did may be useless or redundant or just stupid, just tell me what you think !


Mutant_DS-7_prelim_schem.png
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supposedly without errors !
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skylab76



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh what the heck! Here's a pic of my DS7 clone:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Once again, I'm abusing KLM switch box enclosures. I've added a noise source to it (borrowing Soundlab's little gem). The smaller thing to the right is piezo-based "drum" with gate and 2 out CVs. It's great for creating industrial tribal type sounds.
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jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

umschmitt wrote:
Finally, after some summer hibernation, a step ahead in the tweaking of the DS-7. I eventually managed to make a schematics (as professional as my test bench) with the modifications already done and working. Still no progress in the signal to trig thing yet.
Some of the things I did may be useless or redundant or just stupid, just tell me what you think !


Interesting, I've been looking forward to hearing more details about your DS7 mods. I'm confused about the LFO switch in the upper right of your schematic, directly under the words "Work in Progress". It doesn't appear to be connected to anything.

I recently "finished" modding my DS-8 and am intending to post some info. A preview of the mods includes:

-Simple sine shaper
-"Pitch bump" switch for adding more impact
-"UFO" (Unusual Frequency Oscillator) mod: some variations on connecting S0 and S1 on M. Bareille's PCB created all sorts of weird LFO shapes (you can do the exact same things with DS7 if you figure out what points correspond to S0 and S1). Would love to add your square LFO to this switch on mine, but I have to see if there's room on my 2P6T.
-Expanding the noise filter from 2 settings to 12.
-Decay mod -- changed R3 to something more like 10k, allowing better range of very short decays without removing much from the long end.

Also, I did a rate mod but I didn't get it to work to my liking the way you depict it. The alternate cap value would just create FM, but it didn't seem like a vary wide-ranging or predictable sweep. So on mine, I just used a 1 Meg pot and switched on a 1 Meg resistor in series. (It goes to FM at the max setting only.)
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umschmitt



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey jumunius. Thanks for the input, I'd be glad to see more about your mods. Please post schematics ! What is that sine shaper ? Also, I'm confused about your description of the UFO thing… Seems I can't find any S0 on the schematics, nor any S1 on the wiring diagram ! Is it me or what ?
About the LFO rate switch, it's just about FM, the big cap is for slow LFO to low freq audio, the tiny one is just for FM, strange you don't get the same. You should have much more range by switching between caps than adding a resistor in series, in my opinion (which is often erratic, I admit).
Concerning the mysterious LFO sq/tri switch on my schematics, it's just connected to the outputs of the two LFO buffers on the left. Sorry if it wasn't clear !
I also forgot to draw a switch for the LFO reset. And a 'drone' switch at the VCA. And, and, and. Well this is far from finished.

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jumunius



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

umschmitt wrote:
Hey jumunius. Thanks for the input, I'd be glad to see more about your mods. Please post schematics ! What is that sine shaper ?


It is basically a variation on one of the Peasant's Thomas Henry Bass++ mods that I adapted here. I'll post the details in the next week. Just 2 resistors, a pot, and 2 diodes if I remember right. Although I made a switch not pot out of it because I was running out of panel room.

Quote:
Also, I'm confused about your description of the UFO thing… Seems I can't find any S0 on the schematics, nor any S1 on the wiring diagram ! Is it me or what ?


It's on Marc Bareille's DS8 not DS7 schematics, but it looks like you could find the same points on the DS7. S0 is where you put your LFO shaper I think.

Quote:
About the LFO rate switch, it's just about FM, the big cap is for slow LFO to low freq audio, the tiny one is just for FM, strange you don't get the same.


I thought that was the standard way to do it too. Maybe part of the problem for me was that with whatever caps I tried plus a 1M pot it seemed like the LFO never got very slow. Even bigger cap sizes didn't seem to adjust the range slow enough. Oh well.

Just connecting S0 to S1 via jumper gives a nice FM (useful for guiro sorts of sounds) so I was happy enough with that. (My UFO switch also combines different resistors and caps here to produce weirder waveforms.)
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