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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Schulte Compact A Phasing
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
there are 2 wire jumpers installed and i have a pin jumper on the amount connector. are there any others? i cannot see any on the reference description diagram.


Directly at R25. You either connect the wiper to the ccw end, or to the cw end of the pot. See schematics.

Jh.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that did the trick

if i increase c8 will it increase the lfo times?
if so is there somewhat of a limit before the rest of the circuit needs altering to accomodate?

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
that did the trick

if i increase c8 will it increase the lfo times?


yes.

Luka wrote:

if so is there somewhat of a limit before the rest of the circuit needs altering to accomodate?


I don't think so.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LOVE this phaser so much

i ran a track through some polymoog resonator & krautrock phaser

http://soundcloud.com/prblmchild/shifting-phaser-ver

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Oakleysound



Joined: Sep 16, 2010
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Location: Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For those building one of these in the UK you may like to know that you can get some very suitable heatsinks from Farnell.

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=4621281

Farnell part number: 4621281

It's perfectly solderable too.

Tony
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mschiffi



Joined: Apr 29, 2011
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Location: Luxembourg

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: correct behaviour?? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, first time poster and absolutely in love with this phaser Wink

I build the phaser, and the sound is there, but...
Testing the unit under working light was not a very good idea.
Covered the upper Lamp and LDR´s, phasing works.
Covered then the lower lamp and LDR´s, and no audible difference in strength or depth of processed signal.
Before testing all these LDR and or IC´s for the lower lamp, I wanted to ask if this behaviour is normal??
The sound I have for he moment corresponds to the sounds I found on the net, but youtube videos have really not the supreme sound quality to hear the very details of the phasing sound. The KRP-1 for example seems to be slightly deeper.
Any suggestions welcome.

Greets and thx

M
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v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi mschiffi. welcome to electro-music.com! Very Happy

Do what sounds best to you! Idea Very Happy

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ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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mschiffi



Joined: Apr 29, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The phase sounds good to me, but would,(could) it sound even better.
Only references are youtube and low compressed mp3.
I would love to have more depth, can it do more depth??
Its a little bit like finding out what the Modulation pot does exactly Wink

M
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sonicwarrior



Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Cologne, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm almost finished and found out that I need to install two wire bridges.
Is there any reason for this? The trace is at the edge and nothing crosses. I'm a bit confused about why it has been done this way. Confused
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TheAncientOne



Joined: Dec 26, 2006
Posts: 146
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you look at the mid right hand side of the schematic

http://www.jhaible.de/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_sch.pdf

You will see the links - they allow for 2x1N4002 series diodes for the bulbs, if you can only get 6.3 Volt ones, rather than 7 Volt in the original. If you have 7 Volt bulbs, fit the links; if you have 6.3 Volt ones, fit the diodes.

Jurgen says this is untested, but knowing him, I'm certain it will work.

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sonicwarrior



Joined: Dec 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:11 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the explanation. Then I can use the wires as I have the original 7 V bulbs.
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Paradigm X



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
magman wrote:
I've just spotted the review of the Mode Machines KRP1 Krautrock Phaser in this months Sound on Sound (December 2010, page 50).

Jurgen also gets a mention, on page 52.

If it wasn't on my wishlist already, this review would have prompted me to add it.

Congratulations

Regards

Magman


I didn't know in was on SoS. Would you mind to mail me a scan of that article?

JH.


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec10/articles/krp1-krautrock-phaser.htm

Smile

Id love to build one of these, love phasers, will have to have a detailed look thru this thread and order when i get some more cash.

Cheers
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majormono



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just found this thread searching for more Info to finally repair my original CPA - actually the unit you can see in the pictures re-posted by moosapotamus in the first pages. The only problem is, I got it non-working and it is Revision P/2a. The schematics on the net are for rev P/2b and the power supply is rather different. After changing all El-caps, fuses and the LM723 the power light comes up at least. Anyone with a schematic for rev. P/2a? This unit is as old as me and before I go ahead and destroy it in a repair-attempt I rather make sure I have an Idea how it works.

Side-by-side comparison of my P/2a and a P/2b pic I found:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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whomper



Joined: Dec 15, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coming back to the phaser and playing with it in a new track, I came to realize that its out volume is low compared to the signal volume coming in.

That is not necessary a problem, however raising the input volume does not raise the out volume, rather it gets the module into distortion wit ha constant volume out.

As it is a little too low for my taste, wanted to raise the out volume using the last op amp.

Is the resistor to tweak R57? what would be a good value to change it to?

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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

whomper wrote:
Coming back to the phaser and playing with it in a new track, I came to realize that its out volume is low compared to the signal volume coming in.

That is not necessary a problem, however raising the input volume does not raise the out volume, rather it gets the module into distortion wit ha constant volume out.

As it is a little too low for my taste, wanted to raise the out volume using the last op amp.

Is the resistor to tweak R57? what would be a good value to change it to?


No. Increase R54 and R58 instead.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Mooger5



Joined: May 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jürgen, thanks for a great sounding phaser. I made a simple mod I´d like to show you.
In the PCB, as per the original, the feedback path is hardwired through R63 and C10 to the second stage. So I used a rotary switch to select between any of the stages to broaden up the range of sounds. It´s very easy to implement, and without cutting any of the tracks. I used the extra solder pads for each Cx that remain when small capacitors are employed.

Here´s an audio example. First at slow tempo with mid phasing amplitude. You can hear small glitches when a next stage is selected. Then a faster tempo and full amplitude. Enjoy Smile


KR phaser feedback multi-path.mp3
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice mod - thanks for sharing this.
To keep switching glitches at a minimum, I recommend adding AC coupling, with a resistor to GND, at each stage that goes to your rotary switch, in a similar way I did with C25, C26, R51.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Mooger5



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
To keep switching glitches at a minimum, I recommend adding AC coupling, with a resistor to GND, at each stage that goes to your rotary switch, in a similar way I did with C25, C26, R51.

JH.

I see. Well my purpose is to be able to select the Fb in a set-and-forget kind of way, not using it "creatively" like it´s some sort of stepped controller Smile But BTW can´t I just use one set of caps and resistor for all the stages? They would link R63 to the common contact of the switch and I´m guessing they´ll block any DC thump regardless which stage is being selected.

Now I´m onto another thing. The purpose is to select the number of actual phasing stages, instead of the Fb path. This way I´d be able to choose an N-stage phaser, not the fixed 8. But it´s not working, I wonder why.
I know this is going beyond the original specification (and this might be a plausible answer)!
Previously, to avoid cutting a track, I had lifted R63´s pin off the PCB and from it ran a wire to the common contact of the switch, while the other contacts are linked to the outputs of the stages. Now I soldered R63 back into place, and instead I ran a wire from the common contact to the lifted-off +pin of C25. With this connection I can link C25 to the output of U8, U9 and so forth. But I get distortion and there´s no change in sound when another stage is selected, including U15...
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Mooger5



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think I get it: the output of every stage is still going through the 15k resistors until C29/C22. By disconnecting C25 even the output of the eighth stage U15 finds a path of 240k of resistance against 50k of the modulation pot. It´s not much of a difference I guess, and explains why I wasn´t noticing any change.
Seems like the way to achieve, say, a four stage phaser is to remove the subsequent stages out of the way. Overkill.
I´ll stick with the Feedback paths instead. Simple and efficient Smile
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hop.sing



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HI

I tried the output volume mod as well as the feedbackpath mod and found both mods pretty useful.
R54 and R58 are 5.1K now, which feels closer to unity gain for me, but it is probably easier to overload the phaser with high feedback. But I actually did not check that out.
I found it useful to take the feedback from the second the fourth and the sixth stage, the other stages sounded strange to me.
I added an attachment with the raw sound(true bypass) second stage, glitch, fourth stage, glitch and sixth stage. Amplitude is at noon and feedback pretty high, but not max.
Enjoy Very Happy


test mods schulte phaser.mp3
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Mooger5



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alright Very Happy Your demo sounds great!
Glad to hear it worked. My phaser has had some last-hour "tweaks" and I was afraid the mod wouldn´t sound as good on others.

Going through the various feedbacks they sound like odd-even-odd-even-etc right? I too find some more useful than others, but the less "phasey" ones I think are still useable as tremolo and Leslie simulators.

How do you find the Modulation? I think I´ll name the outputs 1 and 2 instead of Left and Right, as they may sound better in mono or at least panned slightly off-center. Else reminds of the time when Stereophonics were about Drums + Bass on the Left and Voice + Guitar on the Right.

Speaking of modulation I think the second mod I was trying did not work because I ran the outputs of the phasing stages through the Modulation path. The true outputs seem to go through all the 15k resistors in series afterall. I thought they were there to define the stages as voltage followers. What a mess Laughing
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hop.sing



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, sounds good, different phasing depths can be achieved that are not possible with the amplitude or feedback knob. Feedback goes in Phase and out of phase at different stages, thats what it sounds like, at least. I could not hear very usable sounds with the uneven feedback stages but that might be just me.
Calling the two output stages left and right is pretty crude, that is true, but sometimes it sounds just right that way, like with background sounds that need some depth, but more often I use that phaser in mono with one output.
How to achieve a 4-stage phaser easily with that one goes a little over my head. But on the other hand, I just like it as it is.
Best tobias
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Mooger5



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I forgot to tell that the solder pad for C18 is not to be used. Setting the feedback path at the eighth stage for the fullest effect should be by means of soldering a wire from the switch to pin 6 of IC15 or C25.
-------------------------------
[Edited: nonsense deleted]
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G2Psy



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I took an immediate interest in the Krautrock Phaser redesigned by Jurgen Haible, but decided to purchase a Mode Machines KRP-1 so that it would work properly instead of being a half finished project. I have had the KRP-1 for a few months and want to list some problems which needed attention.

* The 2 lamps for the LDRs are not shielded. This is pretty stupid because the third lamp is much brighter and in the opposite phase. So the sweep is affected by the bright front panel lamp. I originally disconnected the front lamp, but have just discovered that black heat-shrink tubing of the right diameter is perfect for shielding the 2 PCB lamps from light. I'm not suggesting you apply heat to shrink it, its just a good flexible tube to slip over each lamp.

* The audio output plugs are very close to the front panel lamp assembly and with the orientation of my left output socket actually touched metal on the lamp when a plug is inserted. Other sockets were also on angles that put contacts a millimeter from the case. By just tightening the sockets with the plugs oriented better, nothing can short out now.

* The soldering on the rate socket was so bad that it caused the sweep to wobble a lot with nothing plugged into the rate socket. Resoldering the socket fixed that.

* The 200ma fuse isn't enough for the design. Jurgen's design was for 2 x 18v ac taps of a power transformer with 200ma fuse on each. The KRP-1 uses only one of the 18v inputs and the 200ma fuse just isn't enough. I blew a few fuses before putting in a 500ma fast blow fuse. Now it is fine.

These are really disappointing faults which are unnecessary, especially to a company appealing to a niche market of enthusiasts. I was disappointed with the KRP-1 for some time. Now that I have rectified these faults I now feel like it is reliable and trustworthy. I certainly LOVE the sound. I also have purchased a bunch of those hard to get 7x lamps for the future.

If you can't get all the parts to make one or have difficulty with making a case, then a KRP-1 will get you that phaser sound the quickest way. But I do warn you that it might need some improving before it works as you would expect.

Regards,
B
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