electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Steiner Microcon Project
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 2 [48 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:33 pm    Post subject: Steiner Microcon Project Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Everyone.

To compliment the Steiner Synthasystem resurrection I completed (see here http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html), I'm now undertaking the Steiner Microcon. I'll put up a page with build/calibration notes and will have PCBs for sale. Be aware, it does use two Vactrols which may be hareder to find as time goes on. They are the VTL5C3/2 variety right now available at Allied Electronics. It also makes use of 5 74C14 Hex Inverters. There are some substitutes which I'll have in the build notes. It also uses a 2n5246 JFET which also recently went away, but it isn't really special and there are substitutes. Everything else should be relatively easy to find.

There are a couple of trimmers on the PCB which will be configured so you can make it a panel pot, like resonance, and sustain level. So, stay tuned.

The Microcon was a standalone synthesizer voice, VCO, LFO, VCF, EG (driving a VCA). It also had a unique way to "fatten" the VCO sound. Below is a photo taken of one Nyle mounted in a custom rack of 8 (or was it 9) Microcons as a special order.



Carry on...


Microcon_03_resize.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  266.6 KB
 Viewed:  167 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Microcon_03_resize.jpg



Microcon_01.jpg
 Description:
Original circuit board
 Filesize:  1.8 MB
 Viewed:  163 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Microcon_01.jpg



_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html

Last edited by dingebre on Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 796
Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm nice would like to hear a sample or three Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Servo



Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Silicon Valley
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:37 pm    Post subject: Steiner Microcon Project Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Dave,

Looks like a neat project. As far as the vactrols, Mammoth Electronics, Small Bear Electronics, and (in the UK) Banzai Music carry them. They are about $6 each, but it looks like they're available.

Tim (photoresistance is futile) Servo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Steiner Microcon Project Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:
Hi Dave,

Looks like a neat project. As far as the vactrols, Mammoth Electronics, Small Bear Electronics, and (in the UK) Banzai Music carry them. They are about $6 each, but it looks like they're available.

Tim (photoresistance is futile) Servo


Thanks Tim. I just picked up a few more from Mammoth. Never bought there before. Good prices.

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vladosh



Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 422
Location: macedonia
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi
Also interested in this project ,thank you for remaking it ..looks it's a lot ahead of it's time ,however i would like if the vcf could be patched out so it can be more modular ,i hope it won't be hard to modify the pcb's ..and forgot .. i've been looking at the schematics available somewhere on the net ,can't figure if it's using a tempco ?
thanks
Vlad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vladosh wrote:
Hi
Also interested in this project ,thank you for remaking it ..looks it's a lot ahead of it's time ,however i would like if the vcf could be patched out so it can be more modular ,i hope it won't be hard to modify the pcb's ..and forgot .. i've been looking at the schematics available somewhere on the net ,can't figure if it's using a tempco ?
thanks
Vlad


Hi Vlad,

I'm considering adding other "patch" points, and yes there is a tempco as well as some high frequency tracking correction.

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is the very preliminary schematic capture. If anyone has a suggestion of where to add a "patch point" let me know.

I've checked it several times and caught some errors already, but if anyone sees an error, let me know.

David


SP_Microcon_1.0.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  SP_Microcon_1.0.pdf
 Filesize:  134.5 KB
 Downloaded:  351 Time(s)


_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vladosh



Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 422
Location: macedonia
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi ..thanks for sharing the schematic ,a little noob question straight away - can i relace the ssm chip with two matched transistors , iknow this has been discussed many times ,but anyway ,if so ,which transistors are best for that purpose 2N ,BC ?
Greetings
Vlad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vladosh wrote:
Hi ..thanks for sharing the schematic ,a little noob question straight away - can i relace the ssm chip with two matched transistors , iknow this has been discussed many times ,but anyway ,if so ,which transistors are best for that purpose 2N ,BC ?
Greetings
Vlad


Remember, Vlad, the schematic is preliminary and probably has a mistake or two I haven't caught yet.

Yes. I haven't experimented, but any small signal NPNs should work. The SSM is primarily a place holder. The original used an AD810. The best I can figure out right now is it was a Semiconductor Technologies chip. http://www.semi-tech-inc.com/default.htm. Although I can't get them to answer me if they are still available. They list them at their webisite, though.

Bottom line is I'm pretty sure you can replace the AD810 (SSM2210) with any matched pair. There are a couple of monolithic pairs available. Linear Systems makes one, LS318 and Analogue Devices makes a new one, the MAT-12 available at Arrow Electronics (at least) in single quantities. http://components.arrow.com/part/detail/50655244S8707494N2771.

I"ve tried these as well as discrete generic NPNs in Nyle's other designs where a matched pair should be used and they worked fine. I see no reason whey they won't work here.

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vladosh



Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 422
Location: macedonia
Audio files: 6

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the info .. thought about match transistors just to cut down overall cost but even if this is not the cheapest project around i guess might be worth it ,so i'll watch for updates on it
cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Servo



Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Silicon Valley
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Steiner Microcon Project Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Dave,

One more thought: maybe put together a small case and power supply and put one (or two) Microcons in there for a nifty little "desktop" synth.


Tim (that's my thought limit for the day) Servo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Steiner Microcon Project Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:
Hey Dave,

One more thought: maybe put together a small case and power supply and put one (or two) Microcons in there for a nifty little "desktop" synth.


Tim (that's my thought limit for the day) Servo


Absolutely. Nyle has a custom "rack" he put together for someone once a long time ago. It has either 8 or nine modules and a rotary switch on the back which might be for combining the voices in different ways. Nyle couldn't remember...

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

can't wait to get one of these boards

great stuff Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
can't wait to get one of these boards

great stuff Very Happy


HI everyone. I have not forgotten. Family, work, and other projects put my SDIY stuff on hold for a few weeks. I am still in process of laying out the PCB. I'll stay in touch here as I make progress.

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Progress is made. I ordered some prototype PCBs this weekend. Right now, the PCB is 4 inches by 3.9 inches and will fit flat behind a 21 HP panel. I don't have any power conditioning on the PCB, so as it it, it has to have +/- 12. You can add one of my power conditioning PCBs from the Synthasystem project if you want some extra filtering and/or regulation.

I should have the PCBs in a few weeks and will post a panel design when done.

I could also split it into 2 PCBs if the width is more a problem than depth and then could put some power conditioning on the second PCB. What do you think?

David


Microcon.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  431.09 KB
 Viewed:  147 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Microcon.jpg



_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my idea was to built one behind a buchla panel,but seems i will need to redraw the pcb

anyhow looks great
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
my idea was to built one behind a buchla panel,but seems i will need to redraw the pcb

anyhow looks great


What form factor works best for Buchla? I can re-do the layout if it still works behind a Euro panel.

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

to fit behind buchla panel pcb may be max. 105x155 mm,105x150mm is ideal
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bod



Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 148
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool, i would be well into a couple of these!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
to fit behind buchla panel pcb may be max. 105x155 mm,105x150mm is ideal


So in my "english" unit mind, this is 4.13 by 6.1 inches. The PCB as it stands is 3.9 by 4 inches. So as is, it should fit, if not an ideal size.

What could be done to make it easier for you to use? Different mounting hole location?

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SubG (deactivated)



Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dingebre wrote:
SubG wrote:
to fit behind buchla panel pcb may be max. 105x155 mm,105x150mm is ideal


So in my "english" unit mind, this is 4.13 by 6.1 inches. The PCB as it stands is 3.9 by 4 inches. So as is, it should fit, if not an ideal size.

What could be done to make it easier for you to use? Different mounting hole location?


well for a buchla style module ideal would be to replace all connectors by 2 long headers parrallel ,but stretch the pcb to the buchla size then so the headers comes at outsides of the pcb,so the pcb just have to be plugged in into the hmm pot pcb .

but normaly first a front panel layout design have to be done to see where there is room for headers..

and provide on board +/- 15v psu (buchla compatibility) Wink

i think if you do a pot pcb aswell for buchla style you could sell some.

i probably will wire up mine.

something like this:


Like this.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  501.78 KB
 Viewed:  146 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Like this.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SubG wrote:
dingebre wrote:
SubG wrote:
to fit behind buchla panel pcb may be max. 105x155 mm,105x150mm is ideal


So in my "english" unit mind, this is 4.13 by 6.1 inches. The PCB as it stands is 3.9 by 4 inches. So as is, it should fit, if not an ideal size.

What could be done to make it easier for you to use? Different mounting hole location?


well for a buchla style module ideal would be to replace all connectors by 2 long headers parrallel ,but stretch the pcb to the buchla size then so the headers comes at outsides of the pcb,so the pcb just have to be plugged in into the hmm pot pcb .

but normaly first a front panel layout design have to be done to see where there is room for headers..

and provide on board +/- 15v psu (buchla compatibility) Wink

i think if you do a pot pcb aswell for buchla style you could sell some.

i probably will wire up mine.

something like this:


Fascinating. Thank you for the info and example. For now, I think I will stick to my standard layout form. But if there is enough interest for a specific Buchla format, I'm willing to give it a go.

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reve



Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 147
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Totes in for two of these if we're looking at like $20/each.
_________________
- r. mosquito
SynthDIY Synthpop -> http://www.reverbnation.com/photovoltaik
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 263
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

reve wrote:
Totes in for two of these if we're looking at like $20/each.


Don't know prices yet. What I've done in the past is I'll go ahead and place an order for a bunch of stock and set a price based on how many I order. That way, I don't have to deal with the hassle of pre-orders and "interest" I don't mind having extras.

It also depends on whether or not it will need a piggy back power conditioning/regulating PCB. If you have a clean +/- 12 volt supply, you may not need anything else. If you have +/- 15, you'll have to regulate it down so you could benefit from my external conditioning PCB. If I put the regulators and filtering on the main PCB, the form factor will go up, so maybe a 2 PCB set from the get go is best. I can then make the overall form factor smaller, like a 14 U euro panel at the expense of being a bit deeper.

I'll figure that out as soon as I get the first prototype in and make sure the circuit works.

I know I want to build a few of these to play with so I'll almost certainly place a big'ish order and see how it goes. If they sell out, I'll make another order.

Sorry to ramble on like that.

David

_________________
David M. Ingebretsen, M.S., M.E.
Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

dingebre@3dphysics.net
http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 2 [48 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use