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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Clicking from 4066
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Cynosure



Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Posts: 623
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Audio files: 34

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Clicking from 4066
Subject description: How do I stop it?
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I don't have a schematic at the moment because my schematic app is on my laptop, which i left at the office. I will try to describe it instead...

I split a sound source.

A 40106 Schmidt trigger oscillator generates a pulse.

I send the pulse to a 4066.

The 4066 switches on and off one of the splits from the sound source.

I send switched sound from the 4066 to one end of a pot, and the other split to the other end of a pot, and take my sound out from the center pin.

This works as a sort of ON/OFF LFO, with the pot controlling the amount that the sound goes OFF and ON.

The only problem is, at higher frequencies there s an audible click that comes though - even when the pot is turned all the way to the original source split side.

Is there any way to lower or remove the clicking? I don't know if it is the 40106 pulses, or the 4066 turning on and off.

I tried using a cap to ground where the pulse connects to the 4066. That helps, but does not totally resolve the problem (it seems to lengthen the pulse width a bit too).
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bubzy



Joined: Oct 27, 2010
Posts: 535
Location: United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey cyno,
this is a totally unfounded, wild guess. i havent tested it and tbh i have never used a cmos switch(to date).
you could try "debouncing" the switch as you would do with a normal switch, so put a capacitor across the poles.
but as i said this is a wild guess. could be worth a shot though
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stolenfat



Joined: Apr 17, 2008
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Location: Sunny Oakland California
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds like a pretty lo-fi attempt to rig something up... which is very admirable (and of course, preferable with lunetta madness) but easily can cause unexpected strange electro anomalies.

If the click is a full on thud, you could try improving the power supply circuit.
Maybe a cap or resistor to ground on both audio lines before they slam into the pot may help (via the ol' pseudo passive filter method)

Judging by the nature of the 4066 switcher, which i believe is a pseudo solid state relay, the clicking described is probably not coming from the chip itself but likely from the 40106 control pulse source: Odds are there's something passing through the common ground lines that needs to be investigated.

And just to understand I get what your talking about... i doodled up a quick schematic as i interpreted your description, is this correct?
Sounds like a great little circuit idea in theory.


schemmy.PNG
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schemmy.PNG



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Cynosure



Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Posts: 623
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Audio files: 34

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes - good job with the schematic. I will try to find some time to test all these things this weekend.

Thanks for the suggestions stolenfat and bubzy!
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Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 247
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

as far as i am aware electronic switches like the 4066 have capacitance coupling between gates, ins, outs, etc. due to the thin barriers in the chip...

this is just inherent, if i am correct.
there are ways of getting around it, like adding the same leakage signal to the output, but inverted, to cancel it out. but that can be quite tricky

someone more knowledgeable should chime in though...
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Mongo1



Joined: Aug 11, 2011
Posts: 411
Location: Raleigh NC

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A few thoughts -

How big is that pot? If it's a low value you might be sending the stuttered output back into the input somehow. Try a bigger pot..

There may be a DC difference between the source and the 4066 output, so when the switch happens it results in a pop. It's possible that you might want to put a series cap on the input, or even on the output line.

One approach you could try - disconnect the 4066 output from the pot. If you can still hear the pop, it seems likely you've got a decoupling issue on the power supply.

What are driving this source from? If it's a high impedence, it may not be able to drive the source sufficiently.

just spitballing - hope it helps

Gary
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Kabzoer



Joined: Feb 07, 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, and maybe you can try both 4066 and 4016, Their internals are a bit different, so you might have better results with one of them!
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Cynosure



Joined: Dec 11, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is an update:

I removed the pulse to trigger the 4066, and there is a quiet high pitched click.

When I connect the pulse to the 4066 I get a louder thud.

I'm assuming that is a power supply issue? How do I go about decoupling to resolve the issue?
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Cynosure



Joined: Dec 11, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also, I did decouple the main power source at the 7809 I am using, and I have a cap from the power pin to ground on the 40106 to prevent starving since it is a large circuit (this is just the latest addition to the circuit).

I was playing around with it lastnight and couldn't resolve the issue, but I did come up with a better option for the lfo - instead of just turning off and on it instead turns on a passive low pass filter (cap to ground). sounds cool.
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Cynosure



Joined: Dec 11, 2010
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Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have been playing with this circuit again, but this time as a stereo widener. It is a completely new circuit on breadboard, and I get the same clicking on the outputs.

The widener works nice, but the clicking is annoying at low speeds and starts to create an audio sound at high speeds.

Any other insights into this? My guess is that it is the 4066 - either the switching causes the click or the 4066 allows a bit of the pulse signal to leak through.

Anything else i can use to replace the 4066 that you know won't click?
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astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've had this issue before, not with Lunetta's but with ring mods. Never able to eliminate the click
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Cynosure



Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Posts: 623
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Audio files: 34

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow - this is an old thread...

I have had better success with use transistors to do switching. They seem to switch a little quieter than the 4066, but you have to make sure that you lower both the sound input level and the switching signal and then boost it afterwards (which adds noise).
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