advice and help on a true analog synth

underground utd · Joined: Jan 11, 2011 Posts: 2 Location: france

hi everyone,
I'm looking for some advice to help me buy my 1st true analog synth but first let me tell you what I know about making sounds and music. I've been djing for 15 years (not as a pro but as a strong hobby). I play techno, electro/house and trance, all with a dark-ish, acid, pumping edge. above all I'm a vinyl lover. As for the hardware I got a Korg esx1-sd wich I'm realy happy with, making a groove in 10min is kind of satisfying. Now, here's what I know about sound synthesis : not a lot, so when I decided to buy a simple synth, I bought a Korg monotron. This was to help me understand the basics of making sounds from scratch, and it did very well. So, I'm looking to go one up again and get a true analog synth with more features, so far here's a list of what caught my attention : DSI mopho keyboard (even though it seems more complicated to edit due to it's menu-sub-menu-asign-re-asign, way to program). Doepfler dark energy (no presets, just knobs to tweek). MFB microzwerg or megazwerg or kraftzwerg (again, just knobs). My price range is 400-600€ (500-700$). One last thing, there's another keyboard waving it's flag saying "look at me I'm easy to program" and that's the Roland gaia (wich I know is a v/a).
Fire away !!
Thanx

fengland · Joined: Feb 18, 2010 Posts: 50 Location: Burlington, VT

hey, welcome to the analog world. The dark energy and mfbs look like great learning tools being semi modular - you'll get the most bang for the modules you have and learn the most about synthesis from something modular - but they're also more complicated and more of a pain to repatch live. A couple questions I would ask is do you care about having a built in keyboard and do you want midi. If you're just making noises or are a good keyboard player and the synth has keys, you don't really need it, or you can sample textures and do melodic analog stuff that way. Midi is a necessity for me as I like to tweak live while I've got a sequence going. analog sequencers are another option. You could also consider vintage analogs, though maybe they're not as good an option if you don't have some soldering and servicing experience.

underground utd · Joined: Jan 11, 2011 Posts: 2 Location: france

hi,
If I was to buy a module without a built-in keyboard I would buy an external midi controller as well. I've not considered an analog sequencer, but I'm going to seek some infos. Thanx

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:07 am Post subject:

There are some related threads in the Modular Synthesis subforum also.. and I think those discussions do contain some advice that should apply for you too. Possibly.. ?

http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-115.html

psychepoppet · Joined: Jul 06, 2010 Posts: 16 Location: Washington DC

I will concur with what Elektro80 and Fengland. Elektro80 stated, in regards to a "new" member here in regards to expensive modules in a modular analogue synthesizer:

"...the nasty truth here is that the basic stuff is far from basic. I´m not in any way opposed to boutique modules at all, but the basic toolbox of fully featured utility modules and a good number of these as well will take you really far. Even if you buy a gazillion of fancy stuff you will still need the basic lot in order to make sense of the fancy stuff anyway."

What I take from this message is: simple is better. So I propose to you some simple questions.

What is your objective in acquiring an analogue synthesizer? What do you plan to do with it? Is it the character of sound? Is it a desire to learn more? What do you want to learn? Is it the apparent simplicity of design? Does it have to be analogue?

600 euro or $800US (present Google calc.) is a lot of money. I own three mildly coveted analogue synthesizers. They do not make me a better musician. They do not add anything to my music that I do not bring to it my self. In fact, in my desire to seek the equipment, I have failed to develop my skills in what I had available already. Technique is most important in performance and production.

So for the solid answers:

Analog sequencer: no, they will cost you double what you are looking to buy. The ESX-1 should have some sequence ability.

DSI Mopho: +1. Read more about it and its brethren, carefully.

Dopfer/MFB: Never owned, but based on demos and specifications they should provide a good next step up from the Korg you own. MICRO/MEGAzworg. I'd go with Mega. It will provide room to learn.

Roland Gaia: If you are going "VA" then look at used equipment. I don't know the market in Europe, but look at the MS2000, JP08080, ION, etc. Those are all sub $700 in the US market. Any one of those, including the GAIA, are able to help you learn synthesis until your brain is full.

The only recommendation out of all this I would humbly suggest is that, if you are learning, save money and buy used digital gear that teaches the same principals as analogue. If you really want to save money there are lots of VST available that will do the same and MIDI keyboards are cheap.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject:

psychepoppet · Joined: Jul 06, 2010 Posts: 16 Location: Washington DC

Elektro,

Thanks for clarifying the quote. 2am + is not the best time of day to write a clear post. I was focused on the parallel and forgot the context.

I'm a recent casualty of the "analog question" and don't want others to fall in to the same trap. In fact, since you mention it, my bank sent me a new credit card just last week and replaced my photo with Kiefer Sutherland's. Very Happy

Underground,

To be clear, I strongly feel there is no need to buy analog gear to learn synthesis. However, I give a thumbs up to DSI or MFB since it would be wiser for you to buy modern analogue gear to learn on, than old gear. I still think its a better choice to buy a used knobby (slidy?) VA with midi and combine it with something like Arturia's Moog or 2600 software if your computer is up to the specs.

fengland · Joined: Feb 18, 2010 Posts: 50 Location: Burlington, VT

Sure, if you don't want to spend any money just make music on the computer - that's how I started. But if you really want analog gear and have the money, get analog gear. Better yet, get a soldering iron, learn how to use it, and make your own - that's how I got into analog.

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:01 am Post subject:

Sure.. everything is nice to have around if you have the money to spend.
I have a modular synth and other analog stuff. I don´t have a Lear Jet though. scratch

Where did I go wrong? Shocked

Inventor · Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:11 am Post subject:

psychepoppet · Joined: Jul 06, 2010 Posts: 16 Location: Washington DC

Inventor · Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:08 am Post subject:

Ooooh! Does it make sound?

Les

loydb · Joined: Feb 04, 2010 Posts: 364 Location: Providence, RI

Get a soldering iron and order a Weird Sound Generator kit from MFOS. After that, maybe a mini-synth or experimenters' board or (if you're into it) an ultimate+expander...

psychepoppet · Joined: Jul 06, 2010 Posts: 16 Location: Washington DC

psychepoppet · Joined: Jul 06, 2010 Posts: 16 Location: Washington DC

Of course, nothing sounds as good as a REAL LearJet. Maybe I'll find a good deal on craigslist...

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject:

pyrosonic · Joined: Jul 12, 2008 Posts: 355 Location: Kent,Oh. USA

I have a nice LONG sample of a Harrier VTOL take off on my Ensoniq ASRX.

When I saw Pink Floyd at the Stadium in Cleveland touring with Animals,they had their Lear buzz the stadium to start the show.With all the mics turned on amplifying the sound it was something to hear! When everyone turned around to watch it go by the band came onstage and started playing "Sheep"
Supposedly someone got in a little trouble with the FAA over that one. Cool

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject:

CatchAce · Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:58 pm Post subject:

Inventor · Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:19 am Post subject:

kkissinger · Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:41 am Post subject:

underground,

On a budget of $500-700 usd you may want to continue to explore VSTs and virtual analog synthesizers.

Even the lowest priced production synthesizers cost around twice your budget. Of course, there is DIY...

If you approach your analog sound as a keyboard and/or midi instrument, you will need a MIDI to CV converter (Paia electronics has a good one). It will also need a case and power supply -- In other words, a significant part of your budget will be chewed up before you add any modules!

However -- you could start out with a MFOS Weird Sound Generator. It is not expensive, is battery-powered (a safe plan for a beginning DIYr), and, if you want to "play" a sound with your computer-based sequencers, you can sample it!

Also, you can purchase a front panel for it -- often in sDIY one must drill and label one's own panels and to have access to an already-built panel is a great advantage.

(Incidentally, I am building a WSG for my granddaughter -- I think she will have a lot of fun with it!)

fengland · Joined: Feb 18, 2010 Posts: 50 Location: Burlington, VT

I guess the MFB stuff, doepfer dark energy, and vermona mono lancet haven't been mentioned and are in that price range - they all have built in midi and are true analog. The mono lancet and dark energy can be semi modular as well so they can be expanded with a modular down the road.

Keysandslots · Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:15 am Post subject:

How about the Nord G2 demo software?

http://www.clavia.se/products/nordmodular/demo.htm

Randy

YashN · Joined: Jun 27, 2011 Posts: 58 Location: Canada

For that budget, I'd say go for the DSI Tetr4 for analogue or the Alesis Ion for a very good and versatile VA. With the Ion, you may want to get some external effects too.

If you compose, always try to get a polysynth which allows you to do at least one bass note and a 3 or 4 note chord.

The rest can be multi-tracked on your computer, track by track.

If you're just starting in synthesis, I wouldn't go for the modular route, but rather would master a simple already internally 'patched' synth, or something similar (the Ion goes much further, so the possibilities are there if you need them).

YashN · Joined: Jun 27, 2011 Posts: 58 Location: Canada

Here are a few additional usually affordable analog synths I would recommend as well: Korg DW-8000 (or DSS-1 or Poly-800), Roland JX-3P, Roland JX-8P. You could also try a Roland Alpha Juno 1 or 2. Sometimes, you can get old Yamaha CS synths (not the 80 of course) for your price range, and also the SCI Prophet-600.

I also have seen some Matrix-1000 or Matrix-6 for those prices or lower, and you could also get a Korg Polysix for that price range.

Note that for the Korg DW, DSS and Poly, if you manage to get them modded to get realtime control over the filter cutoff and resonance, as well as external audio into the VCF, then these things are total beasts with a very agressive, strong, dark, self-resonant filter...