need opinion between synths I'm looking at on Ebay, CL

[patrickvf1976]

Soooo... I'm in the process of (re)building a budget studio after taking a huge financial hit and having to sell almost all of my gear. I already snatched a Korg EA-1 from Ebay, and now I'm $100 away from my limit. I'm eying at other offers for some modules and keys (I intend to use the Korg as a controller for other gear, and as a sound source by itself), so here are six offers for $100 or less that I can't make up my mind about:

E-mu Proteus 1000
Yamaha TX81Z
Yamaha FB01
Roland D-110
Yamaha PSS-680
Casio CZ1

Which of these do you recommend (Quality vs versatility/usability)?

[elektro80]

Possibly the Casio CZ-1 could be interesting. It is kinda nutty and quite charming.
The Proteus is what it is, and that means it can be useful at times. A very decent little worker.

The Roland can keep doors open.

The rest.. I dunno.. The FB is not really too exciting if you ask me. The Yamaha TX81Z offers more, but it is hard to say how usable it would be for you. FM synthesis is cool, but if you want to take just a small step away from using presets then... well... FM patching, Yamaha style, is possible.. some like it.. some hate it. YMMV

[DrJustice]

[elektro80]

The D-110 really needs one of those midi based sound editors in order to be truly useful. I dunno how much these go for these days. Possibly the same sound editor could be used for the TX also.

Right.. soundquest..
http://www.squest.com

They used to have a list there somehwere re which modules and synths the app has editing templates for.

[v-un-v]

I'd look for a Blofeld instead. I saw one go recently for £150

But if you really can't stretch to that, go for the E-mu or the TX81Z

[patrickvf1976]

The electribes can be used to control other gear via sysex, right? If so, which of these would be supported? Or would I have to program the knobs myself?

[elektro80]

Agreed.. but the CZ-1 is kinda cute.

Way back in the mid 80s Casio came up with the PD synthesis product line ( Phase Distortion ). The CZ-1 is IMO the best PD based synth to get from this period. AFAICR the keyboard was pretty cool and it had touch and aftertouch?

The items on the list aren´t really comparable. They are very different, and apart from the Proteus, they are all specialist toys.. they only makes sense if you already know why you want them and have used them before way back when they were new.

Blofeld? Yes!!!!

[Keysandslots]

I had a CZ-101 many years ago, lots of fun. I was trying to get an organ sound out of it and accidentally came up with a great distorted guitar patch. Sent the patch to Keyboard magazine and they sent me $50.00!

Co-incidentally, I'm heading over to see a friend tonight who is going to give me a CZ-101 he has had laying around for years. I can even use it as a keytar. I wonder how I'll look on stage, now that I'm over 50 and a bit, uh, heavier, with a keytar and some tight spandex?

I've been really tempted to get a Blofeld. With the sampling option installed, can you use it for some of the rompler stuff, like acoustic pianos, strings and that sort of thing?

Randy

[GovernorSilver]

What distiguished the Proteus line from other romplers:

1. Z-plane filters. Yes, they are digital, and yes they can resonate. More info here (scroll to "Z-Plane Synthesis"):http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun98/articles/synthschool.html

2. Virtual patch cord modulation system - matrix of 64 sources to 64 destinations


There's an open source patch editor:
http://prodatum.sourceforge.net/

[patrickvf1976]

Some last questions before I pick one (before they go away, luckily they're still there)

The 64 patch matrix and z-plane filter sounds tasty - how does z-plane compare to other filter types? What are the big differences besides being digital? Also, the Proteus being a "rompler", are the samples single cycle, sample loops, or sampled waveforms just like in the early ensoniqs (esq1, sq80, etc), or does it also have it's own waveforms?

About the D-110 I read somewhere that it does use samples as transients, and has it's own sound generation engine, so it compares to Ensoniq's SQ series synths? I looked at some demos on YT and it doesn't sound very dull at all to me, but I heard it's very hard to program without an editor/controller.

About the CZ-1 I used to have a CZ-101 and it made some pretty kewl sounds, but what bugged me was that you couldn't change parameters in real time because it would kind of restart itself everytime something changed and you couldn't use a midi controller for realtime tweaking. Can at least any of the other ones (e. g. said CZ-1) be tweaked realtime?

So here are my final contenders: Emo Proteus 1000, Yamaha TX81Z, Casio CZ-1 (if realtime controllable)

PS: Does the D-110 have Z-plane filters?

[Blue Hell]

[GovernorSilver]

[patrickvf1976]

I feel tempted to get the Yamaha PSS-680 - programmable presets via editor program or controller, programmable rhythm, dirt cheap - is it worth it at all? I saw some DSR-1000 here and there but they're prices are a bit beyond my limit.

[patrickvf1976]

found out that the guy who sells the proteus won't sell it with any sound roms in it.
Like "Hey lookie proteus 1000 for dirt cheap but you gotta buy ridiculously overpriced wave roms to use it" Stupid cut-throat grrrrr

[egw]

I've seen Proteus 2000 with ROM selling for around $200.
Much more powerful than anything else on that list.
Some additional ROMs can be found for under $100.

[patrickvf1976]

I think I'm gonna stick with the D-110, it's the best deal so far ($77.70, free shipping) and after watching some youtube demos (disregarding the cheesy rom demos) It don't sound too shabby at all, and if I can use some controller to tweak some parameters realtime, then It's gonna be much more interesting than my Casio HT-700. Maybe I can scratch some extra $ together to get the $40 TX81Z I saw on CL (If I only would get a reply from that guy). I was opting for the CZ-1 as well, but I found no evidence that you can realtime tweak parameters on it. Maybe next month after I paid everything off I might go for a Juno-1.

[v-un-v]

You'll regret not getting that Emu!

[elektro80]

I actually have some D-110s. Decent doorstops.

[patrickvf1976]

The only emu I wanted was the proteus 1000, but it wouldn't come with any wave roms and for some reason I'm a little apprehensive about getting one of the older proteus's. Plus they also mostly come minus roms, so they would not be much use for me until I can actually afford some rom cards/chips. Plus my limit actually is $100 incl. shipping, so for now... meh.. maybe next month. I could find an extra $20 and pick up the Fatman since there's no S&H fees involved. Whaddaya think?

elektro80 - What would you sell one of your D110 for?

[elektro80]

I´ve tried giving the things away, but I tend to get them returned because .. well.. a D-110 is not really significantly more impressive than what I´m telling people that they are.. understatement.. There are nice features though.. like the massive row of outputs.

Anyways, sending the fairly heavy 1U rack units by mail from Norway will be expensive and the units are hardwired for 230 volts.

The main problem with the D-110 is not that it sounds all bad, but rather that the feature set is dated in a way that makes the D-110 a tad unusable. It doesn´t fit in well any more. That is something the D-110 shares with many synths from the same era.

[elektro80]

D-110s are also known to be a bit noisy. To some this is a complete showstopper.

For all out bliss get a an E-MU.

Save your money this month.. and the next..

[patrickvf1976]

Maybe you're right. My problem is that I'm very eager to get my studio back up and running asap and the deals that I found so far seemed to fit the gap I'm trying to fill. What I have right now is.. insufficient at best. A Korg 770, Casio HT700, essentials aside, that's all I got to work with right now. At least the electribe will give me something to work with. But I'm still gonna go for the TX81Z... or the Fatman? Argh not another one to make up my mind about!

[elektro80]

I understand that you want to get something synthish really fast, but as I might have said before.. your wish list is a bit all over the place.. the fatman and the TX are very different creatures.

What are you really trying to replace and how are you planning to use it? You probably already have a computer, and audio interface.. possibly a mixer of some kind..?

[patrickvf1976]

I'm basically looking for an all around synth module in addition to what I have. I used to have an Ensoniq ESQ1, Akai AX60 and a Korg-DW-8000, all which I had to sell and now greatly miss, but I was also planning on going for (rack) modules. My requirements would be mono and poly play, analog like and digital sounds and fx, realtime access to parameters, total control over sound generation parameters. The electribe seems kewl but it's also fairly limited (no LFO, only 2 notes polyphony), but nice for the price. I only looked at the D110 because of the price and it might fill most of the requirements. Same with the TX81Z, but the only drawback is that it doesn't have a real resonant VCF, but I could route it through the electribe's filters? The other deals didn't look too bad either, but had their drawbacks. Since my style is rather experimental, maybe a mix of daft punk, kraftwerk and jarre, if anything, anything that more or less fits my needs for little price is fair game. The mono/lead/bass/fx parts are pretty much covered, but I need something for the rest.

PS: The PAIA on the other hand looks pretty delicious to me.
PPS: Oh, and yeah I have a mixer, computer(thriftstore find) and a amp (also thriftstore), so yeah it's as ghetto as it gets lol

[patrickvf1976]

Hmmmm... I just came across a listing for a Roland JV-50 for $100 in my area. Should I go for it? Is it gonna be worth it at al? I researched around and it seems to be similar to the D series in sound architecture. Opinions, please...