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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
4046 Pitch Tracker - Turn clicks into lasers
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
Posts: 305
Location: Oak Park, IL
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:18 am    Post subject: 4046 Pitch Tracker - Turn clicks into lasers Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been enjoying working on my blog about lunetta circuits and experimenting with the 4049 lately. I dug out my copy of Nic Collin's "Handmade Electronic Music" and played around with his PLL Pitch Tracking design.

It uses the 4046 to follow/track the input signal: he demonstrated with a guitar as input but I found it worked perfectly well with our lunetta modules too. I kept the 4049 even though it's original purpose was to amplify and square up the incoming guitar signal. It adds tons of character to this effect so it stays Smile .

It gives those quiet clicks and patterns a ton of Oomph; all without R/2R or op amps involved.

The samples show how changing the cap value of the loop filter of the 4046 (pin 9) affects the tracking. Using a 10n or 22n gave very good tracking while using a 1uF cap created a wonderful diving Galaxian/Galaga Bug vibe. My final build will have a switch Wink . Plenty of room for further experiments with this fun chip: Draal Approved thumright

SpaceNuts by Draal

Galaxian by Draal

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Last edited by Draal on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a quick blip about the patch. I ran two different speed oscillators into controllers A and B on the 4052 ic. A and B control which of the 4 inputs gets to the output pin. I'm only using half of the 4052. Those 4 inputs are divisions from a 4040 divider.


4052func.png
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4052func.png



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inlifeindeath



Joined: Apr 02, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

great work draal! gonna have to give this a shot
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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Location: Oak Park, IL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heavens! I never posted the schematic!


4046 pitchtrackUpdate.jpg
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Updated layout for clarity...I hope :)
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4046 pitchtrackUpdate.jpg



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Last edited by Draal on Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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RingMad



Joined: Jan 15, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Despite this circuit looking pretty simple, I had a lot of trouble with it. I can't really figure it out. Without the 4049, I got nothing. If I don't adjust the pot on the 4049 just right, I get nothing like the lasers. My chips are CD4049UBE and SCL4046BE.

Why is the even 4049 necessary? A 9-volt square wave as input to the 4046 should be fine, no? I need to do more tests, because this isn't the first time I've had problems with both these chips.

Nevertheless, after much tweaking, I did manage to get some really cool sounds from this circuit. I really want to work out the bugs so that it's easier to use, but in the meantime... here's me trying to embed some soundcloud tracks...

In "Capsirrither", there are also a melody generator and a VCO going... the 4049-4046 is making the castanet sounds.

CMOSnippet 018: Capsirrither by JamesSchid

In "Tetruction" there is also a VCO going... the 4049-4046 is making the crackly sounds.
CMOSnippet 019: Tetruction by JamesSchid

In "Porhyoton", there is a VCO and a melody generator going, the 4049-4046 is making the clackety sounds.

CMOSnippet 020: Porhyoton by JamesSchid
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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Location: Oak Park, IL
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry to hear you had troubles with it. No, the 4049 isn't essential in our case. I have been able to get pitch tracking just by running your typical lunetta outs/gates through it.

I left the 4049 in because I love the variation in sounds I get when I crank up the gain pot. I've had my troubles with ic's that others had no problems with; so I understand your frustration completely.

My lunetta is sitting in a tangled mess right now because I'm rehousing it. I actually just finished building another 4046 pitch tracker without the 4049 this week. When I get this beast more under control, I'll run some more samples.

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Draal



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update July 16.2012

Deleting my original layout for clarity. Use above schematic or breadboard image.

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Last edited by Draal on Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for fixing the circuit, but I still can't really get this to go.
I think something is wrong with my 4049's... it's frustrating... I went back to Nic Collins' book and tried those circuits, and can't get the 4049 to amplify anything, just like when I tried those last year. Thing is, I tried a 4069 (rewiring for the different pinout) and that didn't work any better. Maybe I'll try a different brand of 4049 if I can find one, but for now, I put those aside again and move on to something else.

Mine are 4049UBE... maybe it needs a 4049B? The U would indicate that it's unbuffered, right? Which is strange since the chip is an inverter-buffer, so how can one have an unbuffered buffer?!
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is indeed strange. I'll take a look at my mass of wires that my lunetta currently looks like to see what 4049 I'm using. That said, this chip shouldn't be so essential that the pitch tracking effect doesn't work.

I am almost done with my lunetta rehouse project: I have 2 Pitch Trackers in mine now. One as shown above and one without the 4049. When I get my last module installed hopefully by this evening, I can give them a test run.

I know for a fact this circuit works and is a cool setup to have. Here's the breadboard version from Google Books:


PTrack.png
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from Nic Collins' groovy book. Thanks Google Books!
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quick check: mine is a 4049UBE too Shocked ! At least you can eliminate that as a culprit.
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for checking the chip. I just don't get it... Using my oscilloscope I can see that the signal coming out of the 4049 is definitely not amplified. I bypassed the input/output caps on it and still no. The chip otherwise seems to work... e.g. I can see that the signal is inverted coming out of the first inverter, and then back again after the second. Mysterious, mysterious.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've experienced similar problems and every time it was just one wire mis-connected or loose. Quadripple check your connections to a circuit diagram!
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Draal



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's an update with 2 videos.




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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very interesting sounds, makes me want ot make one of these Very Happy However I have no money for more chips Sad
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Draal



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made another clip. This one uses the 4094 and 4512 to create the pattern and that output goes to the 4046 module. No r/2r, vco's, or any other filler to create the sounds.


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Draal



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject:
Subject description: Mic Input using PWM
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Here's a couple of clips showing how the 4046 pitch tracker sounds when the PWM (Tim Escodeo's circuit) is added for mic input. Clip 1 has no 4049 as gain circuit but clip 2 does. Clip 2 also has a switch to choose between 2 different caps in the loop filter. That's right, I got 2 of these modules in my lunetta Very Happy





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synthesist



Joined: Feb 17, 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey

did anyone try to listen to the output of pin1 and pin2 on the cd4046?
Cause I made some similar circuits like the pitchtracker and if you are lucky you get to here this weird bitcrushing-like sound on these outputs.
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Draal



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes Very Happy ! There is much more to this chip than meets the eye and I hope to order more in the future for more experiments. Thanks for the tip!
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attdestroyers



Joined: Mar 29, 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I played with this circuit for a while and here's what i came up with...

I liked a .1 uF cap between pins 6 & 7 of the 4046 best. I noticed a cool effect when i removed that cap and then placed it back in. So, I rigged that cap up so it could be automatically switched on and off by a clock (I used a 40106 w/ a 10uF cap and a 1M pot) through a 4066 chip.

I later found out that it was also cool to put Draals original 10nF cap between pins 6 & 7 while my .1uF cap was switching on and off. So, I wired that back in and put a hard switch on it to shut it on or off depending on which effect is desirable. (see attachment)

This is an awesome circuit and it makes a real nice addition to my lunetta. I've almost finished the panel for this module and i'll be sure to post pictures when it's all finished. Thanks again Draal.


Pitch Tracker.png
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Draal



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey, glad you're playing around with Nic Collins' circuit. Smile ! I could not see my lunetta without one. Getting creative with the caps at pin 6 and 7 as well as the loop filter opens up more tonal options. I'm adding one to my mini lunetta, so I plan on taking a closer look at the tweaks you mentioned. Pins one and two can also be wired out to jacks for even more noise.

Pin 5 will be experimented with; Slacker's 4046 VCO notes mention pin 5 offers modulation possibilities Twisted Evil .

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attdestroyers



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, there's lots more to try.

I also played around with adding a potentiometer between pin 11 and ground and pin 12 and ground. I also plan on building another one of these after I build a sequencer. I agree that there is a lot more to explore with this chip. Looking forward to it.
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm going insane. I just can't get this circuit to produce the cool sounds like Draal. Have others built this circuit successfully? Am I cursed? Does it not work in Canada?

I really want this circuit to work, and it's a pretty easy one, too. I've breadboarded it several times, starting about 2 years ago when I got the Nicolas Collins book. I have tried 3 different brands of 4046.

[EDIT: VIDEO DELETED: I had here a video showing my circuit built just like Draal's "stripped down" demo video, but now I think we've found the culprit... it looks like this circuit does not work with certain brands of chips... read the next few entries for more info]

Thanks for any help/advice,
James

Last edited by RingMad on Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Draal



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time with this circuit Sad . I have built 3 and I get the sounds I've posted. I will build another one on bread board and see what gives.

If we can't get to the bottom of this in a week, hell, I'll build ya one on perf. Hope to breadboard tonight.

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RingMad



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your time, Sir, I know you're a busy (family) man.

More data, grasping at straws: I power my Lunetta mess with an unregulated 9V wallwart (which tends to give more like 12V). I also tried a 5V one. I've successfully built VCO's using these 4046s I have (Motorola MC14046BCP, Harris CD4046BE, and Solid State Scientific SCL4046BE).

I also tried the ol' 100nF on the power pin to ground, as well as a 100k pulldown on the input pin 14.

James
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Draal



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update

I built this guy on breadboard this evening and got it up and running despite some goofs. I had no lasers for a bit and I scratched my head. I went through all my wires and noticed the ground connection fell off the board Rolling Eyes .

I run my lunettas off a regulated 12v wall wart as well as a switching supply and I have both active and passive mixers at the output. No difference in sounds to my ears.

I got "wormsign" when I turned it on again and said, whew, I know this circuit works. The other goof is a schematic error I need to correct on the lugs of the pitch tracking pot. Nic Collins has the middle lug going to pin 9 and the outer lug to pin 13, my layout has em' switched. Doesn't make a difference Wink ; lasers still generate regardless of lug orientation. Now for the proof:

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