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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » iOS - iPad/Phone/Pod etc
WiiLes: Performance Art / Music with WiiMotes
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: WiiLes: Performance Art / Music with WiiMotes
Subject description: or: Les customizes an exercise plan...
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edit: changed subject from iPAM to iLes, the new project name.

edit: changed subject from iLes to WiiLes, the new project name.

Yup, gonna do it, finally gonna get a barebones iPhone with a low end plan. You may recall at em09 i used an accelerometer wired to a usb port on a netbook as a customized music controller. Now I have a mouse that works in the air to do the same thing, but both techniques are quite limited.

I have long dreamed of doing expressive fitness dance / performance art by having such a sensor on my wrists and ankles, but have not been able to find an affordable wireless sensor to do the job. Enter the iPhone, and a crazy relocation "trip" to Texas which strangely ended up with me having a little extra cash for toys. At only $199 each, the low end iphone becomes a very affordable sensor for such a project.

Also it runs many music apps, some of which I imagine make use of the accelerometers in the phone. Buy wrist straps to attach the iThingies, wirelessly receive the music output from the app being run on each, mix those outputs, and ta-da! Performance Art / Music via motion control for under $1,000.

Now, this must not be a new thing and I'm sure some folks have done it, but I want to do it myself. So I'm asking: what gear do i need? It's probably best to post here and ask rather than search for the gear myself because y'all have got the familiarity with what's out there in the market.

So... what gear do i need to buy for this setup?

Les

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Last edited by Inventor on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:13 pm; edited 3 times in total
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audiodef



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I like this idea. I hope to see it in action!
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is an API in IOS for retrieving real time info from the sensors. You can send this as for instance midi over wifi. You mac mini should be able to receive the data. However, in order to get access to all the goodies you must register with Apple.. and the developer fee is approx 100 usd each year.

There might be apps that does this already.

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Inventor
Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the initial thoughts, guys and yes I do intend to spend that $100 down the road on other projects or on implementing this project in the way that you described, elektro80. While that is definitely a good alternative and could be the best alternative by causing me to release an app, my first step is your latter suggestion of seeing what apps already exist.

While most apps will involve control via touchscreen, I'm sure that some - perhps not even music apps but game or exercise apps - respond to the motion of the iPhone/iPad in 3d space. a drum program would be a good candidate for this or a tai chi program or a marble balancing game perhaps would make interesting sounds.

Then I start with one iPhone (just cause i need a phone), for the left hand and later add a second device (iPod Touch perhaps for the right hand) and later the ankles. Four should be enough voices for a good music performance.

The other part of my question has to do with the gear. I need to begin with a wrist strap of some sort, made for bigger wrists, and then i need a device to pick up the audio output wirelessly and convert it into audio - is that my Mac mini or perhaps some cool accessory that I can purchase. Finally, a mixer if necessary.

I'm hoping to do this in the first incarnation with as little DIY as possible, it should be quite practical to just use available accessories for this. So there are some more details to define the direction, do it in easy steps with easy pieces and then get more hands-on later i suppose, the way of all product development really...

More comments? Speak up folks!

Les

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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, this is too easy, lol... I did some quick searching and found this little device for under $40. It is made by Belkin, so a well known audio name and all it does is receive a bluetooth stereo signal and drive it out as a line level signal ona 3.5mm jack. I just need one of those per IThingie to get the signal from the strapped-on iThingie to the audio system. Maybe some 3.5mm to 1/4" adapaters also.

This means that the approach of bolting together existing audio devices is simple, practical, and easy. Oh, and there are tons of other competing devices to choose from. wow. Attached is the manual for the device and below is a photo of what's in the box - they even give you the cables!

Les


Belkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver.jpg
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Belkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver
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Belkin Bluetooth Audio Receiver.jpg



man_f8z492_8820-00264.pdf
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Belkin Receiver Manual (PDF)

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 Filename:  man_f8z492_8820-00264.pdf
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Need an armband, obviously, this one has glow-in-the-dark for night visibility and on-stage coolness factor, but it's $26, while others are $10. Not sure which i'll get but size matters here and the leg ones are going to be a problem most likely. May have to rig something custom for the ankles.

Les


iluvicc212.jpg
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glow in dark fancy armband for iPhone
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More ideas.. actually one of my very old ones.. but fairly easy to accomplish with the iPhone:

As the iPhone not only has sensors for axial directional movement, but also temperature and most importantly the GPS. BTW, GPS data on the iPhone includes elevation.

So.. you could construct physical zones in a larger room.. or on a stage.. or in a house or whatever.. and then use these in the data as well.

Theoretically it should be possible to make silly performances like a piano roll sequencer performed by players on a large grid on a stage or in a field. Axial directional movement data could be used for say modulation or switching sounds for each step etc.

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pyrosonic



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As far as apps go I know Jasuto Pro has makes use of the tilt sensor in a "tilt theremin" program. TC-11 also makes use of it and I'm sure there are others as well.
As far as strapping the phone to your body goes any case that has a belt loop combined with velcro will do it.You'll do best with something that has a closed loop as opposed to a clip with an open end in terms of it being secure.I love the double sided velcro more than the kind with 2 pieces,makes great cable ties too.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wooops,my bad,
TC-11 is iPad only,not iPhone.

You do know about the ios forum here under instruments and equipment,right Les?

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/forum-176.html

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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, great suggestions folks, thanks! Pyrosonic's strap idea will help greatly for ankle mounts on my big legs. elektro80, as he often does, sparks my imagination with the use of GPS and other sensors including the proximity and light sensors, lots we can do.

I've been looking at apps on the iTunes store and adding some to my wishlist. There is an OSC one, spinOSC i believe for sending sensor data to ChucK, and that requires no additional hardware beyond the iThing and the armband, plus many music applications that may work nicely.

I do have one question: I would like to get an iPhone on the left wrist and iPod Touch for the other three positions, just so i have a phone. is there some flaw with this concept? Am I correct in thinking that an iPhone is just an iPod Touch with a phone added, or is there some difference such as display size?

Les

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://beepstreet.com/gyrosynth
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

lala wrote:
http://beepstreet.com/gyrosynth


Cool!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
I do have one question: I would like to get an iPhone on the left wrist and iPod Touch for the other three positions, just so i have a phone. is there some flaw with this concept? Am I correct in thinking that an iPhone is just an iPod Touch with a phone added, or is there some difference such as display size?

Les


I think you should consider how you would use the incoming data before you buy more stuff. It could be that only one device will be enough for now.. in order to make sense of the data and figure out how to use it. Keep in mind that the iPhone sensors work differently to how say a traditional midi body sensor suit works.

--
Addition:

There will be some obvious issues with how to interpret the data from the sensors, which means that you will need some realtime processing before you send it to whatever you want to control. You might need possible interpolate the data, rescale it, tweak and correct the axis of it and also prevent possible midi data overflow states.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Its been a few weeks since I tried it out, but Korg has WIST. It lets idevices sync with each other via bluetooth, and they have an SDK for it. How much that would help your project, I do not know. I do not remember what I was trying to accomplish by syncing my ipad with my itouch, but there were two different music apps involved. Sorry I can not give you any more detail, but I can not remember. Just thought I'd mention it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.korguser.net/wist/

Quote:
WIST (Wireless Sync-Start Technology) is Korg's innovative technology which allows for wireless sync-start between two WIST-compatible apps on two iPads and/or iPhones located near each other. You can now sync with your friend's device to create a dynamic live performance using two compatible apps.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My apologies for not replying soon, i have a nasty cold.

The situation is this: when my card arrives, i will purchase either an iPod Touch or an iPhone for use on this project and also for general use. My question is are there any differences between them besides the phone such as display size or whatever?

Les

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh and ty for thoughts and suggestions, will review and comment when not sick anymore.

Les

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
My apologies for not replying soon, i have a nasty cold.

The situation is this: when my card arrives, i will purchase either an iPod Touch or an iPhone for use on this project and also for general use. My question is are there any differences between them besides the phone such as display size or whatever?

Les


Display size and res are the same. 4s has more mem and dual core chip from ipad2.
See video
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Then the choice is obvious since they are the same price, the phone wins.

Les

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isn't the low price for the phone dependant on you signing a plan for the phone? Because the phone at that price is subsidized?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="elektro80"]Isn't the low price for the phone dependant on you signing a plan for the phone? Because the phone at that price is subsidized?[/quote

Oh yes, I didn't think of that hidden cost. I only need a minimum phone plan, so it's something like $30 a month. That adds up. Perhaps I should get the touch...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah,it's at least $30 for the data plan in addition to the voice plan.You're not likely to get away with less than $100 (or more) a month for your wireless bill.That's the reason I didn't get a "smart" phone.The Touch might be better for your purposes.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just as an idea: you could also use wireless joysticks talking to a computer. Wireless joysticks have several buttons and analog "inputs" available (once hacked), and you can have several connected to one system. Joystick->MIDI converters are plentiful (see Pure Data, MIJOY, MJOY, etc). They are cheap (~$50 each). just an idea. Or maybe it could be used as a prototype before doing a full flash-mob iPAM performance with a bunch of other iPhone wielding side-kicks!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pyrosonic, agreed: i am poor and i have a phone that works and is free on a family plan, so...

jk, well I want to do other things with the setup such as animate my second life game character according to my real life arm motions. also the touch offers more sensors than a tilt sensor. I have tried this with 3d and 2d accelerometers and the results were good but limited. The addition of a gyro sensor alone helps a lot. Also there is an ambient light sensor, but that's it. The phone has more sensors. also the iPhone has 16GB in lowest configuration while the touch only has 8GB.

But new models are coming out in april or thereabouts, so it makes sense not to spend much now. One of the things I want is a portable gear setup. So I can walk around town or around my home or wherever going boom-tisha-wham gently but continuously. Remember, the ultimate goal is weight loss which for me means lots of very light exercise with breaks!

For that reason I'm looking at a $35 wireless speaker that i can toss in a backpack or somesuch. then i'll be "that music guy"...

Les

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Since motion is one of the key elements to the question at hand, and the iPhone/itouch solution may not be readily solve it, perhaps electronic drumsticks might be a place to start. I did a quick search, and ToysRUs has them. Admittedly they are toys, but they might be able to be hacked to give them a bit more versatility. Of course the cheesy little speakers would have to be replaced with a jack to run the audio as they do not transmit, nor do they transmit any signals for external control. I imagine that some trigger buttons could be added to it to trigger a small device carried in a backpack. The drawback is that they would require a wire from the sticks to your speaker and any other devices that could be sent to, like a delay stomp box. A padded velcro strap on the arms could help tame the wires. When you get whichever idevice you settle on, it could be incorporated into your set up. Heck they might be an interesting project for the DIY guys here.
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