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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Kyma
Keeping Kyma Alive
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chime



Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Keeping Kyma Alive Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have had a Paca for about a year, but I needs more sounds, I have made some sounds and enjoyed it but their must be some grand designs we don't get to use.

Are they trade secrets these sounds?
Why are there not any sound banks for sale?

I suspect that if Kyma does not provide some more sound banks made for 2012, or code a nice GUI that is user friendly (drop down boxes with preset expressions for example) it will die a slow death as there are so many new user friendly options are being developed.

Like..
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/padshop/start.html

Don't get me wrong I do love the Kyma, It just needs some modern love.
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks like an advert to me?
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trotz



Joined: Aug 06, 2007
Posts: 80
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kyma is a language, not a virtual device.

As a language it is evolving every yer with new "words": prototypes, sounds, tools... Learning the language is the most powerful tool you can add to the system. Of course, it is a very difficult task. I have had my Pacarana for two years now and I am only beginning to understand the most basic concepts. And... believe me, I have dedicated some time to it.

Symbolic Sound focus their efforts into attending the community. Usually it never takes them more than a few hours to answer when you post a request or ask for details about something you don't understand. Carla is always kind even with the most basic questions or user-related problems. So, they aim their efforts to develop a community of "sound library creators" rather than "sound library consumers".

This is exactly the reason why some "grand designs" are not shared. Kyma programs, Sounds as they are called can be full compositions in many aspects.

Could Symbolic Sound take a different approach like, say Native Instruments and sell "signature boxed sound banks"? Yeah, why not! Smile But I don't think it will ever happen.

Personally I would be very upset if they ever released something as short-minded as a novelty virtual plugin but I DO agree with you with the other things you said like the GUI showing its age (Comic Sans horror and overlapping windows all around).

If your learn to program it you will never feel the need for new sound banks. You will create a new sound every time you plug your Paca on!

For huge sound banks, nice GUI and constant (paid) updates I think you couldn't go wrong with NI's Komplete. Much cheaper and you don't have to spend 3 or 4 years to master it. Reaktor is lots of fun and also very powerful even though it lacks the super-powerful DSP's and nice real-time spectral tools of Kyma.

Well, that's only my opinion... don't take me too seriously!!!

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My guess is the original post is just spam for steinberg as the two products he is talking about are so completely different!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Location New zealand, IP address from France, IP has been used to spam from before ... Steinberg into stealth marketing Shocked

I dont really see it on other fora tho - strange thing.

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Last edited by Blue Hell on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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chime



Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 4
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey I am not spam, strange thing you need to show my IP ?
Is that what you usually do for new users..

Paranoid Maybe?

Anyway i was just showing Steinberg as joining the granular synth club in relation to kyma and it grain clouds...

Cheers Guys.
You make me feel warm and fuzzy.
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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mmm:

http://www.stopforumspam.com/ipcheck/ [IP removed by Blue Hell]

Thats you!
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trotz



Joined: Aug 06, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi chime,

I don't believe you are a spammer. Your comment about "drop down boxes with preset expressions" shows that you have knowledge of the inner works of the Kyma system and is, in fact, an excellent suggestion. Far too elaborated for simply being a random spam post.

Besides, I couldn't agree more on your other remark of the GUI being outdated and in need of some "modern love".

In my opinion, you miss the point since a boxed plugin with nice presets has nothing to do with Kyma but I see the intention in your post to show a modern GUI and not simply linking to an ad. But I think Kyma's GUI should be compared to Max 6, Reaktor, G2's editor (still one of the best after these many years), Supercollider, Processing, Quartz Composer... or any other audio/video languages. At this moment being Reaktor the one providing the nicest user interfaces for user developed content. The excellent free user library and the commercial ensembles (razor, prism, spark, finger, mouth...) are in the direction you pointed at.

Given the comparatively lower price of Reaktor and the fact that each product can do things that the other can not, I use both of them and feel very happy about it. With Kyma's specialized user base and its unique DSP power I don't see it dying a slow death but quite the contrary. The yearly KISS events are a huge proof of that.

I am curious about what would be in your opinion the other "many new user friendly options" that are being developed and that could rival Kyma in the near future. Certainly NOT Steinberg plugins, though.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chime wrote:
Paranoid Maybe?


Yes, sorry .. part of the job Confused

I'll remove some stuff ... hope that will make you feel more welcome.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hang on isn't that ip linked to spam and in France not New Zealand?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

7 weeks ago, or so it told me yesterday Laughing
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_bp



Joined: Jul 20, 2005
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Location: austin, tx

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

trotz wrote:
Kyma is a language, not a virtual device.

As a language it is evolving every yer with new "words": prototypes, sounds, tools... Learning the language is the most powerful tool you can add to the system. Of course, it is a very difficult task. I have had my Pacarana for two years now and I am only beginning to understand the most basic concepts. And... believe me, I have dedicated some time to it.

Symbolic Sound focus their efforts into attending the community. Usually it never takes them more than a few hours to answer when you post a request or ask for details about something you don't understand. Carla is always kind even with the most basic questions or user-related problems. So, they aim their efforts to develop a community of "sound library creators" rather than "sound library consumers".

This is exactly the reason why some "grand designs" are not shared. Kyma programs, Sounds as they are called can be full compositions in many aspects.

Could Symbolic Sound take a different approach like, say Native Instruments and sell "signature boxed sound banks"? Yeah, why not! Smile But I don't think it will ever happen.

Personally I would be very upset if they ever released something as short-minded as a novelty virtual plugin but I DO agree with you with the other things you said like the GUI showing its age (Comic Sans horror and overlapping windows all around).

If your learn to program it you will never feel the need for new sound banks. You will create a new sound every time you plug your Paca on!

For huge sound banks, nice GUI and constant (paid) updates I think you couldn't go wrong with NI's Komplete. Much cheaper and you don't have to spend 3 or 4 years to master it. Reaktor is lots of fun and also very powerful even though it lacks the super-powerful DSP's and nice real-time spectral tools of Kyma.

Well, that's only my opinion... don't take me too seriously!!!


Quoted for truth. Couldn't agree more with the above. I love this especially: "So, they aim their efforts to develop a community of "sound library creators" rather than "sound library consumers"."

The only area GUI area I wish for an overhaul is the VCS. I'd love themes and I'd like a few more widgets. A x-y widget would be especially nice.
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chime



Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pleased to meet you, Trotz I have thought about what you said about a sound being a composition. This makes sense to me,rather than a sound being a patch. Its a steep learning curve and I am trying to learn. I do love the kyma.

I just wish they had more video tutorials etc. I would like to go the the symposium one day when I become more comfortable with capy talk.

I would like to see, for example drop down boxes where you can select your musical scale (as an example) rather than trying to program this in capy.. Just some shortcuts like this would help.

Lets hope Kyma is be able to keep up with what new user interfaces are bringing to the creative surface. For me smooth workflow is very important.

I hope to make my own "Grand Designs" one day, and I will promise to share.

Oh and I like Steinbergs products.. and Windows.. and AMD.. and Kyma and making sounds..

au revoir.


trotz wrote:
Hi chime,

I don't believe you are a spammer. Your comment about "drop down boxes with preset expressions" shows that you have knowledge of the inner works of the Kyma system and is, in fact, an excellent suggestion. Far too elaborated for simply being a random spam post.

Besides, I couldn't agree more on your other remark of the GUI being outdated and in need of some "modern love".

In my opinion, you miss the point since a boxed plugin with nice presets has nothing to do with Kyma but I see the intention in your post to show a modern GUI and not simply linking to an ad. But I think Kyma's GUI should be compared to Max 6, Reaktor, G2's editor (still one of the best after these many years), Supercollider, Processing, Quartz Composer... or any other audio/video languages. At this moment being Reaktor the one providing the nicest user interfaces for user developed content. The excellent free user library and the commercial ensembles (razor, prism, spark, finger, mouth...) are in the direction you pointed at.

Given the comparatively lower price of Reaktor and the fact that each product can do things that the other can not, I use both of them and feel very happy about it. With Kyma's specialized user base and its unique DSP power I don't see it dying a slow death but quite the contrary. The yearly KISS events are a huge proof of that.

I am curious about what would be in your opinion the other "many new user friendly options" that are being developed and that could rival Kyma in the near future. Certainly NOT Steinberg plugins, though.
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trotz



Joined: Aug 06, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: mallorca

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chime wrote:


Oh and I like Steinbergs products.. and Windows.. and AMD.. and Kyma and making sounds..


Smile Well, I have been using Cubase since Atari v1.0 and I even worked for Steinberg so I have nothing against them Very Happy

Welcome chime.

Feel free to use the mindmaps I have prepared to assist in navigating through the steep landscapes of Kyma... Maybe they will provide you an alternative point of view on what's available.

http://pedrotrotz.com/kyma-mindmaps

I wish someday there was an unofficial debate on how the next big Kyma update should be. Everyone's opinion should be carefully listened to...

Regards,

Pere

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taylor12k



Joined: May 04, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

trotz put it well above. kyma is a beautiful thing and kurt and carla equally so! but i agree 100% it needs a massive facelift.

there's likely no doubt among anybody that kyma's sound and potential are at the top of the pile... but if it's going to compete and win over new users, the realtime interface (VCS in kyma-speak) needs to be updated.

comic sans = no no

a non-1994 look and some more potential with, for example, dragging across waveform views and such for various tasks.

the other thing that would likely help is some sort of DAW integration. there have been hints and attempts, but nothing solid or official.

i want to be able to use kyma in real time within my DAW.

that being said what i DON'T want to see happen to kyma is it go the opposite direction and turn into ridiculous eye candy like Reaktor did. whiile kyma's UI may be hurting it a bit, so is reaktor's (in my opinion) just for different reasons.

i think kyma's programming interface.. the dragging of prototypes, etc.. is brilliant.. and needs nothing. it's easy to use, looks nice, and puts a ton of power in two gestures: drag, double click.

i know a number of people have suggested kyma facelifts to carla and i know of one who has gone as far as to start designing one, but nothing has ever come of it. their main focus is the SOUND, which is commendable, but i fear the aged interface is turning off new customers and, admitedly, making me grab for a few other plug ins instead of kyma when i need something a bit more interactive and quick.

keeping my fingers crossed...
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trotz



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Taylor. I admire your work Wink

It's good to read your qualified thoughts at this forum.

Best regards,

Pere

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cebec



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

_bp wrote:
A x-y widget would be especially nice.


I'm not in front of Kyma right now but I think this exists. You select two VCS faders when in VCS edit mode and then there's a dropdown option in the editor for turning it into a 2-D controller. Apologies for being really vague...

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trotz



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Widget type / Make Agregate

VERY NICE!

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_bp



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is that newish? I sold my system about a year ago but just re-ordered a new system. Won't arrive for a few weeks.

If not, I can't believe I missed that before.
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cebec



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

_bp wrote:
Is that newish? I sold my system about a year ago but just re-ordered a new system. Won't arrive for a few weeks.

If not, I can't believe I missed that before.


Yes, it was added within the last year.

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Muied Lumens
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chime wrote:
I just wish they had more video tutorials etc. I would like to go the the symposium one day when I become more comfortable with capy talk.


There is a lot of material available for you to learn Kyma, it's just that it is hidden away in several places. You can find sounds in the forum for example if you search, and while they may not be exactly what you are looking for, they will most likely present you with new ideas about how to do things. The more methodological/organised you are the better, esp when it comes to saving your work!

Bottom line is be prepared to put a lot of hours in...

One of the things that has helped me a lot lately is a new book which covers a lot of ground for beginners and intermediates:

http://www.lulu.com/product/item/kyma-and-the-sumofsines-disco-club/18768717

And of course, ask a lot of questions. A little bit every day goes a long way. Smile

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taylor12k



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how is that book? i've been wanting to pick it up but there's not a lot of info out there about it and what's exactly in it...

Muied Lumens wrote:
chime wrote:
I just wish they had more video tutorials etc. I would like to go the the symposium one day when I become more comfortable with capy talk.


There is a lot of material available for you to learn Kyma, it's just that it is hidden away in several places. You can find sounds in the forum for example if you search, and while they may not be exactly what you are looking for, they will most likely present you with new ideas about how to do things. The more methodological/organised you are the better, esp when it comes to saving your work!

Bottom line is be prepared to put a lot of hours in...

One of the things that has helped me a lot lately is a new book which covers a lot of ground for beginners and intermediates:

http://www.lulu.com/product/item/kyma-and-the-sumofsines-disco-club/18768717

And of course, ask a lot of questions. A little bit every day goes a long way. Smile
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Muied Lumens
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It tells you everything you need to know to get started and up and running with kyma. I think it is meant for students who want to get going on their own in a course somewhere. It tells you how to set up a Pacarana and Audio Interface, install software etc, then goes on to the VCS, Timeline and all things you would expect. There is some overlap with Kyma X revealed but this book is more focussed and quick to get through, obviously missing out on some deeper aspects on the way. There is some basic Capytalk and tool coverage, and I'm sure some bits that you will find useful unless you are a Kyma veteran.

It has a full prototype reference, shorter than the one from Symbolic Sound, and a more indepth coverage of 50 well chosen prototypes. It also clears up a few details that are not very obvious from other sources.

I have only one complaint about it, which has to do with the print quality - the text is clear but some of the pictures suffer from this.

It is a well written and concise book, and it has given me a boost in understanding Kyma. I am not a very experienced user, I have had my Paca for a few months short of three years now. I would recommend this to anyone who is struggling with Kyma, whether they are beginners or beyond that. It is bound to give you some new understanding, if not put old things in a new light. I find again and again that Kyma is very good at doing things in several different ways. It is very much a language as pointed out above.

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taylor12k



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for the info. while i've had the system for years i feel like a perpetual beginner.

i don't need info on how to set up my system or the obvious basic stuff, but you're probably correct in that even reading about the prototypes again in detail will shed some new light and/or inspiration.

i know nothing about capytalk, but i do know how to build some interesting Sounds from scratch. i guess i'm at some sort of intermediate level.
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Muied Lumens
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heh I know what you mean!

I find it is a nice place to be, being a constant beginner. Also having so many options available has really focussed me, helped me get to where I want to be, paradoxically perhaps. It has taken me a lot of time and effort of course but the return makes it all worth it.

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