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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
Sound Lab Mini-Synth Mark II v.s. Ultimate
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jukingeo



Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Posts: 161
Location: The dark side of the moon

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Sound Lab Mini-Synth Mark II v.s. Ultimate Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all,

Once again, I have come back to this site after a hiatus and the marvellous Ray Wilson is at it again! This time around the Sound Lab Mark II has caught my attention.

At first I began to compare the Mini-Synth MKII to the old one, but realized very quickly (after looking at the circuit) that it actually compares more to the Ultimate. Almost I would go as far as that even though I would be down 1 LFO and 1 VCO, I gain a second AD/R envelope generator.

Now in terms of use, I would be interested in using the synth both for music and sound effects creation. In terms of sound effects, I mostly like to create deep low frequency droning sounds as I often use these sounds in my Halloween projects.

I know I have had these discussions before and overall I know that modules ARE the best route to go, but I ruled that out right off the bat due to the higher costs and larger real estate needed. Going from a home to an apartment dwelling seriously put a damper on my space and pocketbook. Also machining the cabinetry for a modular was also an issue. Finally I wanted something I could use right away.

The Ultimate is certainly a nice alternative all around as a good entry level point for me, since it is all in one, but leaves the door open for doing modular work. But the thing that put me off on the Ultimate was that it only had one simple AR generator. Wanting a second AD/R (or ADSR) envelope generator would put me into another enclosure right off the bat.

In terms of cost it appears that the Ultimate would only run slightly more expensive than the Mark II.

In terms of size, the Mark II is considerably smaller than the Ultimate.

It would seem that the Mark II would be the way to go for me, but I am interested in opinions from others.

Would you stick with the Ultimate, or go with the new Mini-Synth MKII?

Thank You,

Geo
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ashleym



Joined: Aug 20, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stick with the Ultimate. You can easily add the expander if you need a few more bits a pieces. Ring modulators and a second filter will really help you sound effects creation. You can use the LFOs or S&H as a second envelope in the Ultimate if thats what you need. The extra VCO and LFO will be more useful- trust me!!!!
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jukingeo



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Posts: 161
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ashleym wrote:
Stick with the Ultimate. You can easily add the expander if you need a few more bits a pieces. Ring modulators and a second filter will really help you sound effects creation. You can use the LFOs or S&H as a second envelope in the Ultimate if thats what you need. The extra VCO and LFO will be more useful- trust me!!!!


Since I grew up in the analog synth era it seemed to be that the minimum de-facto standard was two VCO's, 1 VCF, 1 VCA, 2 ASDR envelope generators and an LFO. The two envelope generators would typically control the VCF and VCA independently. In the end if you had more sections to your synth, then more power to you.

Taking a look at the Ultimate, it looks very close to the Minimoog. So given that this synth is semi-modular, it definitely looks like a great starting point. However, the thing that nags me is that not only does it have only 1 envelope generator, it is a considerably parred down one as well as not being a full ASDR one. Sure one can get the full ASDR using the expander, but that does up the cost considerably and as of now I can only the Ultimate or something similar in price range.

The 'small' single envelope generator did even get me wondering if it really is necessary to have the third VCO, as I would rather trade that off for another envelope generator. Seeing the Mini-Synth MK-II in that it has two AD/R generators, but minus 1 VCO had me wondering if this might be a good way to go. Another thing is that it seems you can set the envelope generator on the Mini-Synth MKII to be either AD or AR. The Ultimate seems to be only AR.

As of now the Ultimate Expander is a bit much extra for me, both in terms of features and price, but having that ADSR right from the get go would be nice.

I thought had come to mind when I saw that Ray has a separate ADSR board available for just $15. Adding this and the few extra parts would only bump up the cost marginally.

Going this route would put me out of the pre-made face panel for the Ultimate and I would have to fend for myself to create a custom control panel for the Ultimate + ADSR.

But yeah, going this route on the Ultimate, I certainly wouldn't consider the Mini Synth MKII any more. So yeah, I would say in terms of flexibility and expandability the Ultimate still wins out. It is just the initial 'bang' for the buck vs size I was considering.

Taking flexibility into consideration, to save costs, I could start out by building only two of the three oscillators on the Ultimate, and then get the ADSR board. I could always build out later with the Expander later on. Then I would have THREE EG's (heh, heh, heh).

Ok, thanks for the input, it is definitely more food for thought.

Geo
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ashleym



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Most subtractive synths follow the Minimoog signal flow, thats why it is the seminal beast it is. The Ultimate has one less envelope but 3 VCOs AND 2 LFO instead of 2/3 VCO and 0/1 LFO. There is also oscillator sync and the patching option. Fewer initial waveshapes but more with a bit of sync. Look at the Minimoog Voyager XL for a mini with patching only $5,000!!

You were lucky with your monosynths of your youth, mine were one of everything including envelopes- SH101 and Axxe. My Rogue has 2 VCOs but only one env.

Building and extra ADSR is a good idea. If you make/order your own faceplate there will be room for one but there isnt really on the size Ray designed to- I know I just looked at mine.
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jukingeo



Joined: Oct 24, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ashleym wrote:
Most subtractive synths follow the Minimoog signal flow, thats why it is the seminal beast it is. The Ultimate has one less envelope but 3 VCOs AND 2 LFO instead of 2/3 VCO and 0/1 LFO. There is also oscillator sync and the patching option. Fewer initial waveshapes but more with a bit of sync.


Yeah, you were right. I was doing the math and looking at what I was getting for each of the top combo deals and the Ultimate comes out to only $13 more. But the big deal comes in terms of flexibility. Time would be also saved in that I don't have to figure out all the patch points in the event I wanted to patch out the Mini Synth MKII, the Ultimate already has that work done for you. Adding on to the Ultimate would be easier too. I just have to keep saving up my pasos and when I get the boards for the Ultimate, I will also get an additional ADSR module. Then I should be set for a while.

Quote:

Look at the Minimoog Voyager XL for a mini with patching only $5,000!!


Yeah, right. ONLY $5000 Shocked

Quote:

You were lucky with your monosynths of your youth, mine were one of everything including envelopes- SH101 and Axxe. My Rogue has 2 VCOs but only one env.


Oh, no, I never owned any of those synths I mentioned. I just was exposed to them. I was lucky enough to be an audio technician for close to 30 years and I have repaired my fair share of MiniMoogs, & Arps. However, while I really liked those synths, my 'dream synth' was the Oberheim OBX and SEM. THAT would be something I would want to own. There was a time I even wanted to duplicate the SEM modules. (I made a post here in this forum about that). There was just something about the Oberheim sound that blows one away!

Quote:

Building and extra ADSR is a good idea. If you make/order your own faceplate there will be room for one but there isnt really on the size Ray designed to- I know I just looked at mine.


Yeah, that is the short coming. My cabinetry making skills isn't up to par and isn't anywhere near my electronic skills. So when I came across MFOS and saw that Ray was offering already made panels...that would make the job THAT much easier. In the end though, the Ultimate is still a great buy considering the cost of obtaining and THEN fixing / restoring a vintage synth.

I did hear many sound clips from the Ultimate and I think it should fit the bill.

Thanx and have a good night!

Geo
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ashleym



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No worries, anytime.

I have no cabinet making skills but I have put together a simple box for my Ultimate. If you are worried about a front panel there are various ways to get one custom made usually by Shaeffer (or Front Panel Express over your side of the pond). It would be no real effort to add some panel space for the extra ADSR. I can post a potential layout if that helps? And for every claim you cant do the woodwork it looks like you are a step ahead of a lot of us with your electronics skills.

One problem with SDIY is that you will always want more. For every extra ADSR you might need a mixer, VCA or inverter. I know with bananas you can stack the cables for mixing but this is relatively crude so you end up needing more mixers and passive attenuators. Try syncing 2 VCOs using an ADSR to control the depth of sync and then adding some LFO to this. It all gets fun and needs more modules!!!

You can also use this as a chance to get versions of the filters you have always loved. I have seen kit versions of CS80s, WASP CMOS dual filters, Polymoog resonators etc etc etc.
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jukingeo



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ashleym wrote:
No worries, anytime.

I have no cabinet making skills but I have put together a simple box for my Ultimate. If you are worried about a front panel there are various ways to get one custom made usually by Shaeffer (or Front Panel Express over your side of the pond). It would be no real effort to add some panel space for the extra ADSR. I can post a potential layout if that helps? And for every claim you cant do the woodwork it looks like you are a step ahead of a lot of us with your electronics skills.


Yeah, making up a custom front panel is one of the problems, but if I COULD do it, it could knock the cost down for a panel.

As for a cabinet, I had already thought of going the rack rail in a wooden frame concept. That would leave the door open for expansion later on.

Quote:

One problem with SDIY is that you will always want more.


Yes, I do see that...but I also see how fast costs can add up.

Quote:

For every extra ADSR you might need a mixer, VCA or inverter. I know with bananas you can stack the cables for mixing but this is relatively crude so you end up needing more mixers and passive attenuators.


I don't know what you could do with stacking ADSR's, but generally when it came to using synths in the past, there was one ADSR that was connected to the VCF and one that was connected to the VCA.

Quote:

Try syncing 2 VCOs using an ADSR to control the depth of sync and then adding some LFO to this. It all gets fun and needs more modules!!!


Well, due to budget AND room constraints I figured if I had two VCO's, 1 good filter, a noise generator, 1 VCF, 1 VCA, 2 LFO's, and 2 ADSR envelopes, a mixer, sample & hold, and a simple sequencer...then that would be more than enough to tinker with.

Quote:

You can also use this as a chance to get versions of the filters you have always loved. I have seen kit versions of CS80s, WASP CMOS dual filters, Polymoog resonators etc etc etc.


That would be something for the future.

One thought had crossed mind when I was looking at the modular VCO. It has two more waveforms. It can do triangle and sine wave in addition to ramp and square. All the outputs are simultaneous too.

Now get this. There is the Synth DIY Experimenters board. Granted I know the VCO's are not the musical 1v per octave. BUT what if I added two of the modular VCO's to the Synth DIY Experimener's board. Can you see I would be more than halfway to my goal. The SDIY board has two of everything. 2 VCFS, 2VCAs, 2AREGs, 2LFO's.

I think that would be a good starting point. I could always add another VCO, a Sample/Hold, and sequencer later on. And finally I could get my ADSR's. Heh Heh. I see what you mean how things can get out of hand really quickly.

For the most part I do want to do both...making music AND sound effects with emphasis on the latter. But I do like to create those awesome sci-fi leads such as those you hear in Close Encounters, Dr. Who, & Blade Runner.

G'Nite

Geo
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loydb



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Something else to keep in mind -- once you've bought the core components used to make one of Ray's projects, you'll find that you've probably got 80%-90% of the parts needed to make the others. The first one is the most expensive, you'll find each successive build requires a smaller and smaller Mouser order...
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jukingeo



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loydb wrote:
Something else to keep in mind -- once you've bought the core components used to make one of Ray's projects, you'll find that you've probably got 80%-90% of the parts needed to make the others. The first one is the most expensive, you'll find each successive build requires a smaller and smaller Mouser order...


Yes, I did think about that as well. While the Ultimate is an excellent way to go as a 'starter system', it still is a large investment. Yet, as I mentioned to Ashleym, it lacks terribly in the envelope generator department. Not only does it only have one envelope it isn't even an ADSR.

At first I did think about going with the Ultimate and an additional outside ADSR and that would certainly do the trick. But then I started 'looking around' the MFOS site, and that is somewhat my downfall. I saw the Modular VCO's and they are slightly different from those used in the Ultimate. They offer the addition of sine and triangle waveforms. So now I am like...ooooo. It has me wondering that perhaps I should get two of the Modular VCO's and the SDIY experimenter board, which happens to have two of everything. Even though the built inVCO's are not of the musical type, I would then have FOUR VCO's total for making sound effects.

The major issue for me going the above route is that I no longer have the option of buying a face panel and I would have to make one. The upside is that I would probably have the makings of an inexpensive modular. THAT I find appealing. Later on when money/space allows, I could add better modules onto the experimenter's side and I would have something that would even rival the Ultimate. I still have to figure out the costs of going this route. The boards would run about the same price either way though.

Basically I would like to put everything in a small cabinet that I can put on a shelf above my computer rig, this way when I create a sound I really like, I can record it into my computer.

Geo
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jukingeo



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: Nord Modular G2
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Update:

Hello all,

Since it is a bit obvious I am confused in the direction which to take my synth project and that is understandable due to the many offerings on the MFOS site.

Taking a tip from early on in this thread, Ashleym mentions preferring 2 (or more) LFO's and an extra VCO over a full fledged ADSR (or more).

So I decided that it is time to sit down and play with a modular synth and determine what it is I actually would like in a Synth.

A while ago I downloaded a soft synth, called the Clavia Nord G2. (But forgot about due to a hard drive crash). Basically this is an entire virtual modular synth on your Windows desktop. In a nutshell you can drag modules to the screen and then wire them up as you would a real world synth.

I was playing with G2 for most of the afternoon and with my initial findings, I do agree mostly with what Ashleym says. I found out very quickly that having less than two LFO's is a no no. Need to have that. While having a third oscillator is beneficial, I found I can make quite a few sounds with just two good ones.

Now in terms of envelope generators, lets just say this is where my initial decision was correct. I was playing around with the AD/R envelopes (similar to what most of the projects have at MFOS) and I found that severely limited. Here is where I definitely prefer an ADSR. But like with an extra oscillator, I found I could do with one full ADSR and wouldn't necessarily need two right off the bat. Perhaps for a second envelope generator I could deal with a simple AR one. But I believe I definitely need one ADSR. I think this is due to the fact that most of the synths I dealt with in the past had ADSR envelope generators.

So with these new findings I definitely have to think things over again. I am looking forward to playing around more with the Nord G2 tonight and I will report more of my findings tomorrow.

Hava good night all!

Geo
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loydb



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The more I read, the more it sounds like you want an Ultimate + Expander, with maybe a full VCO thrown in for the extra waveforms...
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jukingeo



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loydb wrote:
The more I read, the more it sounds like you want an Ultimate + Expander, with maybe a full VCO thrown in for the extra waveforms...


You are probably right. Ashleym also said that as well that the ultimate would be my best bet.

I would say that all of the synths I played with, the two I liked the most were the OBX for polysynth work and the Minimoog for mono work. The Ultimate, while very different than the Minimoog, does share quite a few similarities.

The only thing is that going for both the Ultimate AND the Expander right now is a bit out of the pocketbook range. I did think about going with the Expander and a couple of the modular VCO's for starters, but the Expander is missing a key element....the LFO's.

I think what it is that I like most about the MFOS VCO's is that not only do you have many choices of waveforms, they are also SIMULTANEOUSLY available. This is why I think I can get by initially with just two VCO's because I can mix the outputs of each VCO. Not even the Minimoog can boast that fact.

Sure, if money was no object, then hands down I would fall into the modular category. But being the sole income producer of a family of 4 does take it's toll on the pocket book.

Overall though, it does look like I am headed towards some kind of semi-modular setup. Not full blown modular and not mini-synth either. I just have to find out what I can do with the funds allotted to me and of course my cabinet making abilities.

It is just finding the happy medium of what I really do "need" in a synth project and what I can do without. I guess I do have to play with the Nord G2 some more and figure that out for myself.

Thanx,

Geo
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bod



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've been pondering the same thing, and i've just jumped in and bought the Ultimate PCB, but i'll be designing my own eurorack front panels to fit my system for each module within the pcb, and adding wave shapers tot he 3 VCO's to give saw, pulse, triangle and sine. Very Happy
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jukingeo



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bod wrote:
i've been pondering the same thing, and i've just jumped in and bought the Ultimate PCB, but i'll be designing my own eurorack front panels to fit my system for each module within the pcb, and adding wave shapers tot he 3 VCO's to give saw, pulse, triangle and sine. Very Happy


Yeah, there is just quite a bit of "fence sitting" in determining what is the best balance of what I would like, cost, and space. The latter two are at a premium otherwise, naturally I would go full modular.

I will just have to see which way I am going to take it. But I know it would be something along the lines of a semi-modular. I do want to keep it small and inexpensive now, but just keep the door open for future projects. Unlike the Sound Lab Mini Synths, which look like great starter pieces as they are small and affordable. I think I might box myself in a corner with something like that and I would know the first time I would want to 'reroute' something.

We will see what I end up doing.

Geo
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loydb



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another thing, the Ultimate is not a fast project. There's no need to buy the Expander up front. By the time you have the Ultimate working, you can save up enough for the Expander Smile Hell, by the time I get *my* Ultimate working, I will probably have saved up enough for a new car. Smile
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jukingeo



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loydb wrote:
Another thing, the Ultimate is not a fast project. There's no need to buy the Expander up front. By the time you have the Ultimate working, you can save up enough for the Expander Smile Hell, by the time I get *my* Ultimate working, I will probably have saved up enough for a new car. Smile


Well, I never built one of the MFOS projects before, so I don't know how long a build would take. However, I do have loads of electronic kit building experience having built many Velleman/Ramsey Electronics kits in the past. I know that I could probably have the panel wired up in about a week and give or take another week for the PCB population.

The killer for me is the cabinet. I am lousy with working with wood and while I can handle myself with metal, I can only do so with the right tools, which I don't have. Then there is making the face panels. No experience there. However, the tutorial on the MFOS site for making laminated panels does sound interesting and might be doable. I did notice that lamination machine prices have come down a bit.

As it stands right now, I narrowed it down quite a bit as to what I am going to do. One route is going with the Ultimate as is despite the VCO limitations (no sine, no triangle) and the stunted AR EG. The Ultimate has the nicest LFO's and a more traditional low pass filter. Tossing in the Sample & Hold is a nice bonus too.

Another route would be to go with two MFOS modular VCO's and the experimenters board. Might be a bit cheaper to go this route and I pretty much would have two of everything. Sample & Hold would be easy to add later.

I think the deal sealer, for me, when it comes to the modular VCO's are the simultaneous sine, triangle, square & ramp outputs. That ability is a huge plus even over the THREE oscillators in the Ultimate.

Ahhhh, I just wish I had more money and space, then I most certainly would go with a full modular. But, alas, that isn't the case. I DID start pricing going that route out and while the boards are only around $15 to $20 each, the cost adds up quickly when you have 9 or 10 modules. The 'all in one' boards that Ray offers are definitely a better buy.

I just have to play around with G2 a bit more to give me more of a solid direction on what it is I really really need.

Geo
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ashleym



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you can solder a circuit board you can do the rest. If you dont have the tools there are plenty of companies and people who will do the tricky jobs.

Look here for an easy way to make a cabinet

http://www.synthesizers.com/diycabinet.html

And you can get a panel by designing your own on Front Panel Designer software- they run up the metal work. I am happy to share my front panel design file, then all you need to do is add you extra VCO/ADSR etc.

Dont forget Ray does a wave folder that will give you a lot of different waveshapes to start with

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/forums.html?MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&PROJARG=WAVEFREAKER/WAVEFREAKER.php&VPW=1024&VPH=519

(if you are not sure what this is look at the demo video, a slightly tame version of what it can do!!)
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have you looked at building an ASM2?
I have built one, (so I'm probably biased) and I don't want to take anything away from Ray, whose designs are excellent, but you did mention disappointment with the AR generators.
Similar build difficulty, but it has 2VCOs (you can use what ever mix you wire up) and 2 full ADSRs. 2VCFs, 2VCAs, 2LFOs, Ringmod, S&H, Noise and an inverter.
It's based on an old Electro-Notes design, and you can get boards, rare components, and complete kits from Elby.
Not sure how it would stack up price wise, but I'm really happy with mine, and I haven't even finished tweaking it yet.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Keep in mind too, that whatever way you go, the real price, in $ is mostly in your panel components. Reliable switches, pots and jacks for this level of build can easily hit 6 to 8 times the price of the board and components. It all depends on how ergonomic, interconnectable and luscious you want it to end up. Cool
So think about the possibility of sourcing the panel components yourself, and designing the layout, etc. in a way that gives you control over options and price.

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jukingeo



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ashleym wrote:
If you can solder a circuit board you can do the rest. If you dont have the tools there are plenty of companies and people who will do the tricky jobs.

Look here for an easy way to make a cabinet

http://www.synthesizers.com/diycabinet.html


Looks pretty easy, IF you have a radial saw, which I don't Sad.

Quote:

And you can get a panel by designing your own on Front Panel Designer software- they run up the metal work. I am happy to share my front panel design file, then all you need to do is add you extra VCO/ADSR etc.


Yeah, I would like to take peak at it. I heard of Front Panel Designer, but I never really looked into it.


Quote:

Dont forget Ray does a wave folder that will give you a lot of different waveshapes to start with

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/forums.html?MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&PROJARG=WAVEFREAKER/WAVEFREAKER.php&VPW=1024&VPH=519

(if you are not sure what this is look at the demo video, a slightly tame version of what it can do!!)


That link is bad. But I did see the demos on the Wavefreaker. Pretty cool piece. Something I would add down the road. As of now I just want to get the basics going...and perhaps build a sequencer too.

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Have you looked at building an ASM2?


No, I actually never heard of it.

Quote:

I have built one, (so I'm probably biased) and I don't want to take anything away from Ray, whose designs are excellent, but you did mention disappointment with the AR generators.


Oh, no, I think Ray's work and items are stupendous. Only a couple of things I find not to my liking. The AR generators are one of the things since they are pretty much on all of the 'all in one' synths on the MFOS site. I have been trying to work with the AR generators more using the Nord G2 program, but without a doubt, I do have more fun with the ADSR envelopes. I know that you can get larger envelope generators, but you get to a point where it is overdone. I think for most of my work ADSR generators will be enough.

Quote:

Similar build difficulty, but it has 2VCOs (you can use what ever mix you wire up) and 2 full ADSRs. 2VCFs, 2VCAs, 2LFOs, Ringmod, S&H, Noise and an inverter.
It's based on an old Electro-Notes design, and you can get boards, rare components, and complete kits from Elby.
Not sure how it would stack up price wise, but I'm really happy with mine, and I haven't even finished tweaking it yet.



Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Keep in mind too, that whatever way you go, the real price, in $ is mostly in your panel components. Reliable switches, pots and jacks for this level of build can easily hit 6 to 8 times the price of the board and components. It all depends on how ergonomic, interconnectable and luscious you want it to end up. Cool
So think about the possibility of sourcing the panel components yourself, and designing the layout, etc. in a way that gives you control over options and price.


Yes, I had noticed that the jacks and controls cost the most. I did think about doing a full (PC) board build, but leaving lesser used controls and jacks out so this way it wouldn't leave as large a dent on the pocketbook. Later on I could always add those jacks / controls.


Overall, I do have to keep my price / size in check right now. July is rolling around the corner, and that is a bill heavy month.

Thanx again for the info.

Geo
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ashleym



Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Posts: 181
Location: uk

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Looks pretty easy, IF you have a radial saw, which I don't .


You are really convinced you can make this cabinet scratch

Dont worry, the old fashion way of using a manual saw will make a perfectly good cut. A tenon or backsaw will be perfect and you can buy them for a few £/$s. A pencil line is good enough but a mitre box will help, I can see one in a UK DIY store for £2.98. Or look at a mitre saw that combines both for less than £20. Once you have the tools you can use them again and again- I wont tell your significant other it that gets you off the home improvement work!!
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