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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » G2 Patches - Completed » FX
Diffuser Chorus
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Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Diffuser Chorus
Subject description: Instant lushness gratification (with demo mp3)
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Here's a diffusor chorus FX circuit based on quad cascaded allpass delays modulated by quadrature sine LFOs (again offsetted 45 degrees between L and R channel for a nice wide stereo effect). Goes from subtle chorus to super-lush almost reverb-like tails. (Which shouldn't be a surprise to those familiar with Schroeders reverb concepts.)

Controls:
DELAY Size: Absolute delay size of the allpass delays, from 0 to 200ms.
DIFFUSION Amount
MODULATION Amount: How much of the selected delay size is then modulated by the LFOs, from no to (almost) peak-to-peak modulation.
MODULATION Rate

The parameters interact with each other. Eg., a modulation rate setting which works well at a small delay size will have to be lowered when you raise the size. There was no DSP left for ganging these to each other (which isn't that trivial if you want to do it correctly), so use your ears. High diffusion amount settings can also cause clipping because of the fierce internal feedback of the diffusor circuits. I tweaked it to be as safe as possible. But if you still get clipping, lower your input signal a tad.

Fits on a DSP. Smile

And a short demo showing how the simplest possible single-osc sawtooth pad is transformed into a almost symphonic experience. Cool

jackson dancing

cheers,
t

EDIT: Note: DO NOT change the module arrangement of the allpass delay cascade. The module calculation sequence is crucial here. The diffusion feedback loops won't work properly otherwise and will cause ugly clipping. Took me a minute to figure out how to trick the patch compiler into doing what I want...


DiffuserChorusTK.pch2
 Description:
Chorus effect with diffusion based on quad cascaded allpass delays. From subtle chorusing to super-lush almost reverb-like FX.

Download
 Filename:  DiffuserChorusTK.pch2
 Filesize:  4.33 KB
 Downloaded:  574 Time(s)


DiffusionChorusTK_demo.mp3
 Description:
Short demo of the diffusion chorus effect, transforming the simplest possible one-osc sawtooth pad into an almost symphonic experience

Download
 Filename:  DiffusionChorusTK_demo.mp3
 Filesize:  3.81 MB
 Downloaded:  436 Time(s)

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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

magnificent!
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Lfohead



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for sharing, keep the great work up mate
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Kaan



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! Amazing... Thanks for sharing! cheers
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Check Mate



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for that awesome patch Tim!

Cheers

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dorremifasol



Joined: Sep 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, another gem. Thank you Tim! I'm trying it on the demo right now. Have you noticed that lowering the diffusion amount introduces a considerable delay?
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dorremifasol wrote:
Have you noticed that lowering the diffusion amount introduces a considerable delay?

The diffusor delays use a typical feedback/feedforward scheme. If you lower diffusion, feedforward is also backed down, so the cumulative temporal effect of the 4 cascaded delays becomes a lot more noticeable. Lowering the "Size" parameter makes the delay lines smaller, reducing the time lag.

As I wrote in the description, all these parameters interact with each other.

Glad you like it. Personally, this is the kind of lushness I was looking for, for many years. Never knew it was diffusors. Ha, so much to learn...
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

Feckin nice demo Tim!!

Not looked the patch yet but the demo mp3 had my jaw hit he floor!

Sick... reminds me of my eventide.. but cleaner sounding.. very very nice.

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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Kleinert wrote:
Ha, so much to learn...


I can't even start to imagine what you could do with Reaktor. Fortunately you stick with the G2, and we thank you for that ^^

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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TIM,

Any chance u could give us some idea as to how this all works and what these all pass delays are doing. I've tried making all pass filters and delays before to smear signals but not got that far in the main.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As mentioned, the L and R channels both contain 4 allpass delay stages arranged in series.
The usual implementation of an allpass delay is a delay with feedforward and feedback, the feedforward being tapped after the summing of feedback with incoming signal. The problem with this kind arrangement is headroom. If you apply a continuous signal to it, together with high amount of feedback, clipping is imminent.
Therefore I use a variation of this design, which also injects the input signal, scaled by feedback amount and inverted, into the feedback loop after the delay stage, before recursion. The result is that the more the feedback is raised (=dispersion) the less input signal reaches the feedback loop (as it is progressively cancelled out by the loopback injected negative signal) which thus prevents clipping. At the same time, this configuration will therefore pass the original signal through increasingly as feedback is raised (and the feedback loop shuts itself off progressively). (This is also the reason why the module placement should not be changed, because otherwise the cancelling doesn't work anymore due to one sample of latency.)

The problem with allpass delays is that typical ugly metallic ringing. In a standard Schoeder reverb type arrangement, one tries to alleviate this by cascading multiple allpass stages and making their delay times mutually prime. Another way to prevent metallic ringing is modulation. Although this is frowned on by reverb purists trying to model a real acoustic space, personally I love the spacy artificial sound of modulated reverbs, especially on synths. Modulated diffusor delays are in fact the building blocks of these kinds of reverb algorithms.

In this patch, the 8 diffusor delays all share the same delay size, but are modulated by one single sine LFO, multiplexed into 8 outputs of 0, 45, 90, 135, 180, 225, 270, and 315 degrees (and smoothed to audiorate via integration). 0, 90, 180, 270 outputs modulate the L diffusors, and 45, 135, 225, 315 going to R, to sufficiently decorrelate the stereo image.

That's all there is to it. Smile Hope this helps.

cheers,
t
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's great thanks.

So as long as I contruct the all pass delay the way you have with the modules laid out in that order it will operate correctly?

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's an isolated single diffusor stage, to show you what's happening. (I used a single 100ms delay though.)

In my patch, there's four of them each for L and R channels, in series and modulated as described above. That's basically all that's going on. Embarassed Laughing


diffuserdelay.pch2
 Description:

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 Filename:  diffuserdelay.pch2
 Filesize:  1.15 KB
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one, thanks Tim. Cool
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh and I forgot to mention: As you see, the delay module is arkwardly placed above and outside the feedback loop. Don't change this! Otherwise the negative injection thing mentioned above will not work properly anymore. (Took me some time to figure that one out... Rolling Eyes )
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahh this is great, thanks for this Tim... must be closely related to the eventide's method of verb production.


Dif Verb.pch2
 Description:

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 Filename:  Dif Verb.pch2
 Filesize:  4.32 KB
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
Ahh this is great, thanks for this Tim... must be closely related to the eventide's method of verb production.


Ah, I see you're getting the hang of it, cool. Very Happy

Modulating the allpass delay times in order to prevent the typical metallic ringing is something you'll already find in old designs like EMT250, Lexicon 224 etc.. It's often frowned upon by reverb purists as it has very little to do with modelling a real acoustic space. But personally, I LOVE this sound and for synthetic textures I totally PREFER it.
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:


Ah, I see you're getting the hang of it, cool. Very Happy

Modulating the allpass delay times in order to prevent the typical metallic ringing is something you'll already find in old designs like EMT250, Lexicon 224 etc.. It's often frowned upon by reverb purists as it has very little to do with modelling a real acoustic space. But personally, I LOVE this sound and for synthetic textures I totally PREFER it.


Well I tried the one above to see the smearing effect when chaining them. But adding some subtle modulation to each tap would really push the effect. Smile. My H3000 has a swept verb algos which is one of my faves, like swinging the cathedral up and down around yr head, screw realism.

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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iPassenger wrote:
screw realism.

Which is why I got into electronic instruments in the first case. Smile
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jamos



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Diffuser chorus? What a boring name. You should call this the Hallelujah chorus!
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jamos wrote:
Diffuser chorus? What a boring name. You should call this the Hallelujah chorus!

angel

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