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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1502 Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:17 am Post subject:
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Could you post a schematic of what you are doing here?
Thanks!
bruce _________________ www.sdiy.org/rfeng
"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963) |
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fluxmonkey
Joined: Jun 24, 2005 Posts: 708 Location: cleve
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject:
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will post schematic soon.
I looked at elby's design quite some time ago and while ok it didn't provide me with all that i wanted
firstly it relies on a very good stable power supply as
it has no voltage ref's
also it only provides for positive output/ octave up and i wanted to be able to have octave down as well
and finally it is only octaves not semitones as well. [single rotary switch]
in the end i decided to do my own as i could not find anything completely suitable. rykhards schematic's provided a good starting point
the semitone section is pretty much exactly the same just different
resistance values i used 100k for all the divider networks
the octave switching is a done differently however as i used the
LM336z/5 trim ability to set the reference to exactly +5 volts for one side
and -5 volts for the other.
switch positions give the following
[/list]octave switch
-5 octaves -5 volts
-4 octaves -4 volts
-3 octaves -3 volts
-2 octaves -2 volts
-1 octaves -1 volt
0 ground
+1 octave +1 volt
+2 octaves +2 volts
+3 octaves +3 volts
+4 octaves +4 volts
+5 octaves +5 voltssemitone switch
0 ground
+1 semitone .0833 volts
+2 semitone .166 volts
+3 semitone .25 volts
+4 semitone .334 volts
+5 semitone .416 volts
+6 semitone .5 volts
+7 semitone .583 volts
+8 semitone .665 volts
+9 semitone .75 volts
+10 semitone .833 volts
+11 semitone .916 volts Last edited by diablojoy on Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject:
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Good work Diablojoy,
One question though.
How come so many of the switch positions have nothing connected to them? I would have thought you'd need to use them all. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject:
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they are all used bar one it was the easiest way
smt resistors directly between the switch post pads [ not shown ]
the switch pads a far larger then actually necessary to allow for this
better to guarantee resistance matching of the divider networks
and a lot less awkward track work. soldering in the resistors is done at the same time as the switches, it isn't that difficult to do as long as long as you stick to a predetermined process
funnily enough i have found blue tac invaluable at holding smt in place
whilst soldering and have never had a problem since i started using it. |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:14 am Post subject:
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Cool. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject:
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Whoa! That is absutively PHENOMENAL to see! Many salutes of respect and appreciation for taking my design a step further! I'm going to keep watching this one as just yesterday, I thought of finishing my Quadatrix Octave sequencers panel. (I have only 1 of 4 completed, though all 4 semitone sequencers have been running for almost a year now.)
Following your example would make further building for me 1 hell of a lot easier!
My only thought further, that I've not partaken of myself yet, is lower current offset opamps for the outputs.
_IF_ I remember correctly, the LF411C / LF412C, were one that I'd found in searching. Others here who have a more current knowledge of opamps will more'n likely be able to recommend others.
In my current setup, I'm just using whichever TL0xx's that I had lying around and tuning is more than accurate enough, across all 5 sequencers, individually running together, or summed, running together. |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject:
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yes TL072 is just what i had lots of, cheap and plentifull
and they work just fine,A better spec'd opamp is not really required,IMO
more of a option really for any who wish it
better to spend money on the 100K resistors and if really finicky about it perhaps better voltage references.
I bought a small roll of 100K 0.1% 25 ppm 1206 smt's specifically
for this project as i plan to build more than a few. |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject:
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diablojoy wrote: | yes TL072 is just what i had lots of, cheap and plentifull
and they work just fine,A better spec'd opamp is not really required,IMO
more of a option really for any who wish it
better to spend money on the 100K resistors and if really finicky about it perhaps better voltage references.
I bought a small roll of 100K 0.1% 25 ppm 1206 smt's specifically
for this project as i plan to build more than a few. |
I'm going to keep the roll of the 1206 format in mind as well, as for all of mine so far, I 0.1%'d all of the resistors by hand with a higher spec. DMM. Took more'n long enough! lol. (From 1% metal film.)
My original intention as well, were to build a LOT of sequencers that I could then control in an entire X, Y matrix. Once I get back to work on them, finishing the 3 more octave sequencers, I'll have 4x4 matrii sequencers for the semitone and octave ones. As far as I've played with the 4x4 semi so far, it's been a lot of fun. In one of my videos on youtube, I have the combination (along with the single octave 4 step) doing New Order's Blue Monday bassline, for 16 bars of it. |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:57 am Post subject:
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edited board pic see first post fixed output track from tlo72
added fourth mounting hole so board can be mounted properly
if not mounted directly to switches [ note : wires run from switch post holes and should preferably be of all the same length if doing this ]
which will allow for different switches and hole centers
added values to switch debounce caps
any suggestions/requests/ for further improvement appreciated
ie : seperate pads for through hole /smt for divider resistors
[I might be able to fit them in ]
value for debounce caps [.01uf was literally the first value i tried
and sonically at least they work fine ]
I will be ordering a few prototype boards next month for final testing |
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sonicwarrior
Joined: Dec 22, 2005 Posts: 266 Location: Cologne, Germany
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject:
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Playing grave digger and answering to Diablojoy's posting here:
diablojoy wrote: | the switches are an alpha from memory 1 pole 12 position |
Are these the SR2512F-0112-19R0B-E9-N-W available @Mouser?
diablojoy wrote: | I do still have some boards but they require a small kludge
need to cut one trace and run a wire
SMT resistors are 1206 0.1% x 21 |
That kludge is no problem for me. 1206 SMT is also no problem.
The PCB looks a bit wide though. 11 cm is very much.
diablojoy wrote: | recomend LT1057 inplace of TL072 for the best accuracy |
Don't know were to get them. Are LT1013 OK, too? Because I have them. |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | Are these the SR2512F-0112-19R0B-E9-N-W available @Mouser |
could not find that number on mouser
however i believe the C&K 611-A10003RNCQ looks likely
very expensive though
I got my switches from jaycar for around half that price
Quote: | The PCB looks a bit wide though. 11 cm is very much. |
The PCB can be used vertically as well as horizontally the switches can be rotated 90 degrees and there are SIL strap points to accomodate the different orientation though i must admit to an error there as well as the flat on the switch shaft is 180 degrees out on the boards i have
I have since corrected this and the kludge on the latest board revision layout but as there was basically no interest I never had any more boards made .
The prototypes i originally had made were for my own use so did not really
intend selling any of those ones, I sent a couple to rykhaard however
as he did the original work not sure if he has got around to building them.
Quote: | Don't know were to get them. Are LT1013 OK, too? Because I have them. |
havent tried that one before
however pretty much any low offset opamp that replaces a TL072 should offer some improvement
Its only really noticeable around 0 volts , where a TL072 is about 3 to 4 millivolts off at 0 volts _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any |
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sonicwarrior
Joined: Dec 22, 2005 Posts: 266 Location: Cologne, Germany
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:34 am Post subject:
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diablojoy wrote: | could not find that number on mouser |
Strange, maybe the Mouser article number 105-SR2512F-112NS works. But I can find it with both @de.mouser.com
diablojoy wrote: | however i believe the C&K 611-A10003RNCQ looks likely
very expensive though |
4,80 € is not that expensive compared to NKK switches but the C&K have a plastic shaft which I don't like on rotary switches.
diablojoy wrote: | The PCB can be used vertically as well as horizontally |
That doesn't really make it better as space is either missing vertically or horizontally then.
I'm thinking about making a different PCB and using 633-MRA112A rotary switches from NKK as they are pretty small. But I would use 3 octave switches on one PCB as I'd like to use them to control 3 VCOs.
Would be cool to have a sequencer project with 8 of them on one PCB. I think they could be used in a 2 column 8 rows 1" grid format. Of course that would require a daughterboard or massive/full SMT which I doubt would generate much interest. |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject:
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Was there ever a run of boards for this? |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | Was there ever a run of boards for this? |
Not enough interest at the time so it didnt happen
I made some 50 of the prototype boards for myself
the majority for VCO's but also a couple of matrix style sequencers and a CV standards module
Quote: | I'm thinking about making a different PCB and using 633-MRA112A rotary switches from NKK as they are pretty small. But I would use 3 octave switches on one PCB as I'd like to use them to control 3 VCOs.
Would be cool to have a sequencer project with 8 of them on one PCB. I think they could be used in a 2 column 8 rows 1" grid format. Of course that would require a daughterboard or massive/full SMT which I doubt would generate much interest. |
Cool a 1" grid spacing would be at least of some more interest to people here i think, though difficult to achieve without as you say full SMT or a daughter board .
At least the posted schematic will give you some headstart _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any |
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aladan
Joined: Aug 13, 2011 Posts: 52 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject:
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diablojoy wrote: | Quote: | Was there ever a run of boards for this? |
Not enough interest at the time so it didnt happen
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PM'd you re: this Last edited by aladan on Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject:
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Do you have any prototype boards left? I'd be interested. |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:11 am Post subject:
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Quote: | Do you have any prototype boards left? I'd be interested. |
hmm 3 years on and now there is a little interest -funny how things work
depending on how many you and aladan wanted i think something could be worked out .
the original prototypes had a few bugs as i mentioned so if you are cool with that ok I would ask for $5.00 a board including postage.
and here's a couple of pics to help
one trace cut just visible between the ceramic cap and the resistor next to the trimmer lower bottom left
one strap run from +ve to that same resistor
if board is to be mounted horizontal or vertical the decision must be made prior to stuffing and attention must be paid to the switch orientation and pin numbers and then to which strap points are used having said that i actually got it wrong by 180 degree's so the flat on the switches is off however i use davies 1510 clones and havent had any loosen up on me yet
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_________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject:
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some interest has come up on this lately
enough to make me decide to do a redesign anyway
I will try to shrink the board by losing the pcb mounting switches
which means some wiring will then be required, and go to all thru hole for the SMT disadvantaged .
maybe a combined output can be added i would like to keep the split output option in there _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any |
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mikeb
Joined: Nov 20, 2006 Posts: 59 Location: The Automotive Capital of Canada
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject:
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Finished product looks great diablojoy. Nice touch with the resistors between the pads too. |
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009 Posts: 667 Location: Frederick, MD
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | Finished product looks great diablojoy. Nice touch with the resistors between the pads too. |
Quote: | Cool! Looks like a very useful little board |
thanks guys
they work exceptionally well
never really understood the lack of interest 3 years ago when i first had them done , OK they aren't the most exciting of things
however as you say very usefull
I front end all of my VCO's with them instead of the usual coarse/fine freq pots ,they make a good CV standards module and could also be used in a Sequencer that wouldnt require any quantizing.
anyway as i have stated I am revisiting this circuit. the new board is about half way through , Its taking me a little longer than i hoped as i am doing it in eagle which i have to learn as i go. [ not the most intuitive program i must say] Also i will be adding a couple of features.
A CV in summed to the main out - possible arpegiator uses [ Aladan's suggestion]
plus a fine control pot will be added +/- 50 cents or so for detuning.
I will be keeping the seperated outs as well
It will be all through hole , so no SMT required and the switches are no longer on the board , The board should be under 3"x 2" size
hopefully the changes will draw some more interest _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006 Posts: 3950 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:52 am Post subject:
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diablojoy wrote: | ... and the switches are no longer on the board... |
why? it would make it so easy to mount it to the front panel. it would save a ot of wiring. and the footprint you used for the prototypes would fit any standard rotary (like lorlin). _________________
cheers,
matthias
____________
Big Boss at fonitronik
Tech Buddy at Random*Source |
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