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-5 to +5 octave and semitone switching board any interest ?
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
why? it would make it so easy to mount it to the front panel. it would save a ot of wiring. and the footprint you used for the prototypes would fit any standard rotary (like lorlin).

Hi Matthias
I thought it made more sense at the time with the original boards as well
but there was no interest at all then , The impression i got was that the switch spacing and type was too limiting for most people .
perhaps it is simply this circuit is seen as not being desirable ?
and yet to me it is so incredibly usefull !
anyway it is time i learned to use eagle and this makes as good a starting place as any. I will probably just release the gerbers as Tombola has done recently on one of his projects once i have made some prototypes and proven the new board works . I have more than enough of the original boards for my own use for any forseeable future so this is just being done really for any others who may be interested but i do still hold the files for the old rev 3 board as well but as that was done in PCBExpress any new manufacture of them would be more expensive.
At the moment eagle is giving me a headache, trying to re route manually after an initial auto route it keeps changing my routes to what it thinks is best , no doubt it is a setting i haven't worked out yet or perhaps i just have to manually route the whole thing to begin with ? I can definitely see why people complain about auto route anyway, there is some Twisted Evil engineers mind behind it.
haha and now you have made me think in another direction yet again
but it would require 2 boards a 90 degree edge connection for 25 pins and
a more difficult trace routing scheme but a very easy assembly.
Idea Confused ah thanks for that i think ?

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fonik



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

forget autoroute. it is crap! use your head instead Very Happy

(edited for spelling)

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Last edited by fonik on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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yusynth



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Reminds me a lot this :
http://yusynth.net/Modular/index_en.html

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Yves
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: -5 to +5 octave and semitone switching board any interest ?
Subject description: edit :board design revisited
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diablojoy wrote:
following on from rykhard's good work
i have been designing a board for myself

your link takes me to your modular DIY page, yves. do you think diablojoy used your work in an unethik way?

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yusynth



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: -5 to +5 octave and semitone switching board any interest ?
Subject description: edit :board design revisited
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fonik wrote:
diablojoy wrote:
following on from rykhard's good work
i have been designing a board for myself

your link takes me to your modular DIY page, yves. do you think diablojoy used your work in an unethik way?


Here is the corrected link http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/STANDARDS/index.html

No Matthias, I have no claim about this circuit which is quite common. I just wanted to let know the people interested that a similar circuit was already there and that the PCB was available at Bridechamber's.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool
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sonicwarrior



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: -5 to +5 octave and semitone switching board any interest ?
Subject description: edit :board design revisited
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yusynth wrote:
I just wanted to let know the people interested that a similar circuit was already there and that the PCB was available at Bridechamber's.


Your PCB has quite a bit more trimmers: 24 vs. 3 on diablojoy's PCB.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
diablojoy wrote:
following on from rykhard's good work
i have been designing a board for myself

your link takes me to your modular DIY page, yves. do you think diablojoy used your work in an unethik way?


Hmm my bad it seems, the statement i made was correct as far as i knew I pm'd rykhaard about doing a board at the time , He was very happy that i should
and while i was aware of Yves's CV standards module i never really looked into the details of the circuitry he used had i done so i would have certainly contacted Yves prior to doing anything as i have done previously with his gated slew circuit - I laid out a single version board of that for use in my sequencer builds
edit : thought i better go have a closer look at yves's circuit and while it acheives a similar aim ther are significant differences and bears little resembance beyond the resistor ladder that is the base requirement, my circuit is a lot closer to rykhaard's original, incorporating 3 on board voltage regs to provide stable base voltages to work from hence 3 trimmers and not 24
yves wrote
Quote:
No Matthias, I have no claim about this circuit which is quite common. I just wanted to let know the people interested that a similar circuit was already there and that the PCB was available at Bridechamber's.

I will reiterate here i have no intent to profit from any board design i may post here nor any interest in doing so , this is my hobby not any sort of income producing venture so any boards i might produce myself
as in this case would be prototypes and if sold on would be at cost price or less depending on board errors eg: the original boards i had manufactured 3 years ago cost me over $7 each to get made but they require a kludge to work .
For this new board layout i will get 10 prototypes made using iTead studio
[cheapest option ]
once it is proven working i will post the gerber files here for anyone to use.

on another note i cant get down to 1" spacing between the switches
minimum is 27.8mm the majority of switch bodies are simply too large
So does anyone know of a commonly available 12 throw single pole rotary pcb mount switch that has a smaller body and is cheap ? Laughing

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
forget autoroute. it is crap! use your head instead

yes apparently it is ! Smile
not really liking the airwire idea and the library much either
but i must go to eagle to lower board production costs it seems

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sonicwarrior



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
So does anyone know of a commonly available 12 throw single pole rotary pcb mount switch that has a smaller body and is cheap ? Laughing


Define 'cheap' and 'commonly available'.

The 633-MRA112A rotary switches from NKK are availabe @Mouser and cost about 8 € w/o VAT in de.mouser.com.
That's not exactly expensive but not exactly cheap and I would say availability @Mouser is equivalent to commonly available. Very Happy Plus you could sell the switches with the PCB. Idea
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Define 'cheap' and 'commonly available'.

quite a difficult thing to do Smile
nice switch and definitely small enough though as you say not exactly expensive but not exactly cheap either .
I will keep it in mind thanks.

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sonicwarrior



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They have a nice action, too. Way better than the Lorlin ones, much smoother.
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roglok



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In order to use this with 12V, I would have to use a higher voltage reference IC, right?

Thanks!
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
In order to use this with 12V, I would have to use a higher voltage reference IC, right?

no it is fine as is , the onboard regulators will drop the required excess voltage and the current draw is so low they dont even get warm
when i originally did this i tested the boards for +/-15v supply
however i also tried down to +/-11volts or so, with no changes required. indeed it was done on the fly as my bench supply is variable and the outputs remained rock solid
so it will work with +/-12v or +/-15v supply's equally well.

the new board layout is starting to look like something anyways.
I hate eagle with a passion now though, must have been written by a commitee . even manually routing is painfull when this program tries to be helpfull. How the hell do you turn off the helpfull bits . I am afraid i have sent a very scathing email to cadsoft support Embarassed asking them to burn all their engineers at the stake for crimes against humanity. I possibly shouldn't have done that , but i was getting over punching my computer screen every few minutes and my neighbours now believe very firmly that i know far too many combinations of swear words and that for the greater good of the local community i must change my attitude . [ I have been rather inventive of late]
still I am getting closer , need to go over the schematic and the layout a few more times to be sure and then off to prototype

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roglok



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:10 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, I guess this was a rather stupid question – but I have another one, probably just as silly Rolling Eyes :

The voltage regulators only output 2.5V, so how do you get +/-5V for the octave switch?
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The voltage regulators only output 2.5V, so how do you get +/-5V for the octave switch?

Ah there are actually 2 versions of that reg
a 2.5v and a 5v version
only the last few designators change for the part numbers
most places when i last checked stocked both types.

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roglok



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
Quote:
The voltage regulators only output 2.5V, so how do you get +/-5V for the octave switch?

Ah there are actually 2 versions of that reg
a 2.5v and a 5v version
only the last few designators change for the part numbers
most places when i last checked stocked both types.


Ah brilliant, thanks! Makes all sense now. I overlooked the different part suffixes... Very Happy
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roglok



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I suppose an LT4131 will work in place of the LM336? I could get those at a local shop...
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I suppose an LT4131 will work in place of the LM336? I could get those at a local shop



honestly dont know , had a very quick look but could not find a datasheet for a reg with that code.

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roglok



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry, a typo slipped in there.... that should have read LT1431, not 4131...

http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/1431fe.pdf
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm looks like it could be gotten to work but it may not be just a drop in replacement, would have to breadboard that.
one reason why i went with the LM336 was the narrow band of adjustment just 4-6v on the 5 volt version this allowed very accurate setting from the trimmer , pretty sure with the far wider range in the
LT1431 it would not be as easy to set correctly.

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roglok



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool, thanks for the information. i'll source some lm336s then...

i want to build this into a VCO (Thomas Henry X-4046 to be specific). will i have to add a 100k resistor between the output and the CV summing node?
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
i want to build this into a VCO (Thomas Henry X-4046 to be specific). will i have to add a 100k resistor between the output and the CV summing node?

with the first boards i used them with MFOS VCO's there i simply used the existing connection points of the coarse and fine pots through the 100k resistors into the summing node with the new board it will be similar
only differance is now I am providing for an additional summed output so you should be able to just use the existing coarse input to the summing node on the 4046 board
I am assuming it it is one of Foniks boards so it would be where he has the wiper of the coarse pot connector this then actually frees up the fine pots
wiper connection point to the summing node so you could add another 1v/oct input jack there .
So instead of coarse and fine freq pots you end up with an octave switch , a semitone switch and if you wish an ultra fine detune pot.

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roglok



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

To be honest, I only want to use the positive 5V offset part and keep both coarse and fine controls. So basically I want to add an extra CV input without sacrificing any of the existing ones. Is there a maximum number of inputs one can add to the summing node?
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roglok



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is some extra space left on the panel, hence this decision Very Happy
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