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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject:
[PCBs] "The Postman" quad Envelope Generator Subject description: Super simple quad AR generator |
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Hey dudes/dudettes!
I am finding I am running short on AR envelopes for drum synthesis/otherwise lately, so have made a very simple quad AR envelope generator that is easy to build lots of!
This cranky old bastard of a postman doesn't even bother knocking on your door when he has a parcel to deliver...he just walks right up and sticks that stinky "missed delivery" notification on your door!
There are two versions you can build on the same PCB. One is a basic version and supplies your project with 4 simple AR envelopes at a very low parts count, and the other is more complex (but still quite low parts count, for what it is), but offers more interesting envelope shape generating ability.
BoM: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvD8ZRA_UZL8dE5uWjNqa2loOVlFV2V1NGtvaHczdFE
hexinverter.net Project Page: http://cv.hexinverter.net/?projects=the-postman-eg-v10
Here are its features:
Basic Version:
- Will run on single supply @ 9-15V (VERY flexible power options)
- Quad Attack/Release envelope generators w/ individual outs
- Gate input for each EG
- LED for each EG
Deluxe Version:
- Requires a dual supply (+/-9, 12 or 15V)
- Adds an inverted output for EG1 and EG3
- Adds two summed outputs for complex envelope shapes (EG 1+2, EG 3+4)
- Attenuation control for EG 1 / 3 in their respective summing sections
- Toggle switches to select between normal and inverted envelopes for EG 1 / 3 in their respective summing stages
So, as you can probably guess, some really cool envelope shapes will be possible by using different length gate signals for the envelopes being summed together. As different gate ON times create somewhat different amplitude envelopes (given that it is an AR generator, and not AD), more complex envelopes can emerge for you to experiment with.
Let me know if you are interested in a PCB (or two...or three...or more) by replying in this thread. I won't be taking preorders, but I WILL order based on how much interest there is, so unless you want to risk not getting some later, let me know you're interested, and how many boards you think you might like.
Demo video to come, eventually _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! Last edited by HexInverter on Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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elmegil
Joined: Mar 20, 2012 Posts: 2177 Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject:
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Hm. Been trying to think about how I'm going to do percussion, this sounds very useful. Depending on price, I think I'd want 2. |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:55 am Post subject:
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2 for me too please Mr hex.
cant let one of your projects go past without buying in it seems. _________________ In an infinite universe one might very well
ask where the hell am I
oh yeah thats right the land of OZ
as good an answer as any |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:22 am Post subject:
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elmegil wrote: | Hm. Been trying to think about how I'm going to do percussion, this sounds very useful. Depending on price, I think I'd want 2. |
Should be about $15 methinks? No more than that, anyway. It was going to be $12 or so, but then feature creep set in and the board grew by about 33%...haha! _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:25 am Post subject:
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diablojoy wrote: | 2 for me too please Mr hex.
cant let one of your projects go past without buying in it seems. |
Right on man! haha...I feel like a drug dealer! _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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elmegil
Joined: Mar 20, 2012 Posts: 2177 Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:20 am Post subject:
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Two it is then |
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magneticstripper
Joined: Jan 12, 2009 Posts: 25 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:02 am Post subject:
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4 would be excellent. |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:06 am Post subject:
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Sounds good I will of course post back in this thread when they're ordered and when I have stock, but, if you want to receive an email when I've got stock, you can throw your name on my mailing list if you would like:
http://blog.hexinverter.net/?page_id=14 _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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marvkaye
Joined: Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 225 Location: Fla
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:09 am Post subject:
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Another great project, Stacy... thanks for all you do.
I'm already in on Muff's but thought I'd post this here just because... any chance you could add a + sign to at least one of the electrolytic silk screens? I can never remember if the shaded side is plus or if the square hole is plus, etc, etc... it would be so much easier to have at least a single reference. I know, we can check the schematic and run the traces from the power connector, but a single + would eliminate all that. Sorry to be a rag.
<marv> |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:13 am Post subject:
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marvkaye wrote: | Another great project, Stacy... thanks for all you do.
I'm already in on Muff's but thought I'd post this here just because... any chance you could add a + sign to at least one of the electrolytic silk screens? I can never remember if the shaded side is plus or if the square hole is plus, etc, etc... it would be so much easier to have at least a single reference. I know, we can check the schematic and run the traces from the power connector, but a single + would eliminate all that. Sorry to be a rag.
<marv> |
Thanks man No problem...this is what I like doing!
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me! I do always mention in the build documentation what my nomenclature is (it is the SHADED side that is negative on all of my PCBs...so it is whatever colour the silkscreen is!)
Also, my PCBs feature square pads for the +V leads of polarised caps.
I will however add some negative signs beside the shaded areas.
I actually have an obsession with symmetry which is why I tend to forget to add the note on one side...it's asymmetrical that way! haha _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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marvkaye
Joined: Mar 14, 2011 Posts: 225 Location: Fla
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:20 am Post subject:
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HexInverter wrote: |
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me! I do always mention in the build documentation what my nomenclature is (it is the SHADED side that is negative on all of my PCBs...so it is whatever colour the silkscreen is!)
Also, my PCBs feature square pads for the +V leads of polarised caps.
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Oh yeah, build documentation....
(It's still nice to have at least one visual reference on the board... thanx.) |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:25 am Post subject:
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marvkaye wrote: | HexInverter wrote: |
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me! I do always mention in the build documentation what my nomenclature is (it is the SHADED side that is negative on all of my PCBs...so it is whatever colour the silkscreen is!)
Also, my PCBs feature square pads for the +V leads of polarised caps.
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Oh yeah, build documentation....
(It's still nice to have at least one visual reference on the board... thanx.) |
Yes, you are correct. My aim from now on is always to make PCBs able to be assembled without any sort of supportive documentation, which is why I always prioritize part VALUES over designations (names) on the PCB.
I don't understand why other people doing DIY boards don't do this. "D1-D29" means shit all to a human being...only makes sense to a machine
Of course it's useful to have reference to the schematic -- which is what the overlay with names in the build manual is for! _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject:
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I'd be interested in 2.
Thanks |
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Boogdish
Joined: Sep 21, 2009 Posts: 122 Location: Bloomington, IN
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject:
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HexInverter wrote: | marvkaye wrote: | HexInverter wrote: |
Ah yes, thanks for reminding me! I do always mention in the build documentation what my nomenclature is (it is the SHADED side that is negative on all of my PCBs...so it is whatever colour the silkscreen is!)
Also, my PCBs feature square pads for the +V leads of polarised caps.
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Oh yeah, build documentation....
(It's still nice to have at least one visual reference on the board... thanx.) |
Yes, you are correct. My aim from now on is always to make PCBs able to be assembled without any sort of supportive documentation, which is why I always prioritize part VALUES over designations (names) on the PCB.
I don't understand why other people doing DIY boards don't do this. "D1-D29" means shit all to a human being...only makes sense to a machine
Of course it's useful to have reference to the schematic -- which is what the overlay with names in the build manual is for! |
Not to derail your thread, but just wanted to say I absolutely agree with you on this. |
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ashleym
Joined: Aug 20, 2009 Posts: 181 Location: uk
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:34 am Post subject:
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One or two for me please. You say the PCBs are cheap but the trouble is all the hardware that ruins me.......
Thanks for using lots of the same resistor values especially ones I use a lot elsewhere- this helps a lot. _________________ http://soundcloud.com/for-mash-get-ash |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject:
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ashleym wrote: | One or two for me please. You say the PCBs are cheap but the trouble is all the hardware that ruins me.......
Thanks for using lots of the same resistor values especially ones I use a lot elsewhere- this helps a lot. |
Hehe no problemo This design is very lending to 10/100k standard resistor values.
Yup, the hardware is always the expensive part -- and, panels! (unless of course you are making your own...then it's pretty cheap) _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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Feifer
Joined: May 16, 2012 Posts: 54 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject:
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So if you can mix 2 of them together would it be possible to end up with something like a ADSR, while feeding trigger to one and gate to another? |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:20 am Post subject:
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Feifer wrote: | So if you can mix 2 of them together would it be possible to end up with something like a ADSR, while feeding trigger to one and gate to another? |
Close to...but not quite. An ASR is possible simply by using a gate and holding it for as long as you want in the sustain cycle.
However, to generate a true ADSR, at least one of the envelopes would need to be an A/D...which none of these are! _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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elmegil
Joined: Mar 20, 2012 Posts: 2177 Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:05 am Post subject:
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I'm still really unlcear on the difference between A/R and A/D |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:28 am Post subject:
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elmegil wrote: | I'm still really unlcear on the difference between A/R and A/D |
Let me help ya clear that up
Attack/Decay:
When a gate arrives, the A/D cycle begins. The entire cycle repeats whether the gate is removed or not. In other words, if you apply gate very quickly but remove it right away, it will continue to rise up after removing the gate, peak, and then fall back down afterwards.
Attack/Release:
The difference here is that the amplitude is a function of the gate length. The envelope only ever reaches maximum amplitude when a gate of long enough duration is applied. Whenever the gate is taken away, the release cycle immediately begins happening, and the output begins to fall towards ground. If you hold the gate for awhile, it will ramp up, sustain at about 2/3 the supply voltage, and then wait for you to take the gate away before beginning the release cycle.
Neither one is "better" than the other all around...they're sort of like comparing apples/oranges. One may be better for other shapes.
In the case of this design, it actually works in our favour that the amplitude is adjusted by the gate length. This means that by putting different gate lengths in different A/Rs and mixing them together, you will get different amplitude/duration envelopes interacting with eachother, which is always fun. _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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numbernone
Joined: Aug 16, 2006 Posts: 477 Location: new york city
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:20 am Post subject:
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At that price I will definitely be having 4. |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:32 am Post subject:
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numbernone wrote: | At that price I will definitely be having 4. |
_________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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elmegil
Joined: Mar 20, 2012 Posts: 2177 Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | If you hold the gate for awhile, it will ramp up, sustain at about 2/3 the supply voltage, and then wait for you to take the gate away before beginning the release cycle. |
So then an AR is like an ASR where S is fixed at 2/3 of the supply? |
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vjrex
Joined: Feb 28, 2011 Posts: 2 Location: wellington New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject:
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4 please |
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HexInverter
Joined: Aug 21, 2010 Posts: 338 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject:
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elmegil wrote: | Quote: | If you hold the gate for awhile, it will ramp up, sustain at about 2/3 the supply voltage, and then wait for you to take the gate away before beginning the release cycle. |
So then an AR is like an ASR where S is fixed at 2/3 of the supply? |
This one is...yes...
Unless I am gravely mistaken, I think that when people say "AR" and "AD" they're really throwing these terms around pretty loosely/interchangeably (save a few folks, who I am sure are sticklers about the nomenclature)
During my research for this project, I naturally arrived at many of the popular synth websites which I frequent -- MFOS, some others...
Anyway, I happened to notice that in one project (and thus, one envelope generator design), Ray (from MFOS) called his envelope generator two different things...and switched back and forth multiple times!
I had to carefully read his circuit description and understand the circuit in order to see that it was in fact an attack/RELEASE EG, and not an attack/decay like was thrown around a few times (by others referring me to schematic, and by Ray...)
I think a lot of folks also loosely call an ASR an AR, and so on...
Not to single MFOS out there...I arrived at many other sites/designs where folks were calling them things that did not really describe the actual circuit functionality perfectly accurately.
It's a bloody jungle out there for envelope generators! Haha.
Anyhow, this is most definitely an ASR in its most technically accurate description. If you gate it short enough (ie: a drum trigger) it will be an AR as it does not have time to sustain at peak voltage at all, but, if you hold the gate there (ie: a long note, holding down a key, or something), it will be an ASR.
In this way I think it is actually most useful _________________ hexinverter.net -- Shop DIY projects and modules for modular synthesis
sympleSEQ -- the simple to build analog step-sequencer
seqSQUARED -- the Analogue Pattern Generator
--> Put yourself on the hexinverter.net mailing list to be notified when in stock! |
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