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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
ARP Odyssey Oscillators
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
Posts: 703
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks AndyR1960 for this cool share!

can i use 2N5457 for 2N5459?
as i see in the datasheet when searching for 2N5459 the 2N5457 is there as well.
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N5459.pdf
i have 20 of them.

cheers,
Isak E.

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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ive just built 2 boards with this latest BOM/PCB, and i have some issues.
The VCO is VERY high pitched, and dont react much at all to the scaling, no matter how much i turn the Trimmers.

I have checked the resistor colorcodes twice, they all check out. I have even measured with a multimeter the extra resistors i had from this build (i always buy som extras of everything i build) and they all show the correct values.

Also, for the VCO-board im troubleshooting, i have put a jumper between the 150k and 100k Sync pads, as its meant to be the master VCO.

I have gone by the BOM for everything, but still this happens. No idea what can be wrong here.

Capacitors:
680pF Polystyrene - http://se.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=23PS168virtualkey21980000virtualkey23PS168
1n - http://www.electrokit.com/pc12-1-nf-50v-poly-5mm.42812
10n - http://www.electrokit.com/mks2-10nf-63v-5mm.42821
100n - http://www.electrokit.com/mks2-100nf-63v-5mm.42658

Ive seen people having problems from time to time with the 4011, so its worth mentioning that i use the CD4011BE.

From Andys pic, i noticed his trimmers are the oposite way around from the BOM, not sure that could mean anything tho.. havent tried that yet.

I really cant figure this out.. Any ideas on what to try?
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
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Location: Israel
Audio files: 18

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
Hi:

For the 2N5459 I originally used BF245 (the pinout is reversed), then changed for the 2N5459, I didn't note any difference.


Hi Sebo.

what kind of BF245 did you use?
i see that there is 3 types.
BF245A / BF245B / BF245C

thanks,
Isak E.

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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone?
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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 539
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isak wrote:
Sebo wrote:
Hi:

For the 2N5459 I originally used BF245 (the pinout is reversed), then changed for the 2N5459, I didn't note any difference.


Hi Sebo.

what kind of BF245 did you use?
i see that there is 3 types.
BF245A / BF245B / BF245C

thanks,
Isak E.


I can't remember for shure but I think they were B type, I don't think it matters anyway.

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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank for replying Sebo.

Can you tell me please if I can use 2N5457 instead of 2N5459?
I'm not that expirenced on reading datasheets Embarassed

Thanks in advance,
Isak E.

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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have anyone actually followed this last BOM and built a working version? (perhaps theres something missing, misplaced, forgotten like the 3.3M resistor for example)
I cant find anything wrong in my build, everything checks out.
Still wont work however.
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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How important are the resistor values?
I mean, i noticed during my troubleshooting that i had a few that wasnt spot on.

91k instead of 88.7k
12.1k instead of 12k.
219k instead of 221k
472k instead of 475k

I presumed they were close enough, but as i really cant find anything else that might be wrong in this build, im reaching for anything.

Also, what kind of voltage would the trace between the tempco and 475k, 49.9k be at? My measure around that part seems a bit odd.

Anyone? Please?
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
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Audio files: 18

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you said you build 2 boards, does the problem is in both boards?
did you use the same components on both boards?

Quote:
91k instead of 88.7k
12.1k instead of 12k.
219k instead of 221k
472k instead of 475k

the values are not with big difference so i dont think that this is the problem.
if you want to make sure that this is not the problem just connect resistors in series, for example add another add 2k in series with 219k etc.
but yet again i dont think this is the problem.

i wish i could help you man but i have not build this yet, waiting for the copper boards to arrive and etch them.
when i will get all the parts i will be able to help as much as i can.
for the mean time good luck finding the problem!

cheers,
Isak E.

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steffensen



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isak wrote:
you said you build 2 boards, does the problem is in both boards?
did you use the same components on both boards?

Quote:
91k instead of 88.7k
12.1k instead of 12k.
219k instead of 221k
472k instead of 475k

the values are not with big difference so i dont think that this is the problem.
if you want to make sure that this is not the problem just connect resistors in series, for example add another add 2k in series with 219k etc.
but yet again i dont think this is the problem.

i wish i could help you man but i have not build this yet, waiting for the copper boards to arrive and etch them.
when i will get all the parts i will be able to help as much as i can.
for the mean time good luck finding the problem!

cheers,
Isak E.


Thanks, im going deep in to this. Gone thru it all by now, several times.

I have built 2 boards, with the same problem on both. A buddy of mine have built 1 board, that also have the same problem. We use the same components however, so there might be something wrong in there.
Tho - all the components seems to be fine. The odd resistors mentioned were the only things i could find that stood out.
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You know...when I think about it i think no One built the single board version.
I think they all built the dual board version.
If you can...try building the dual board version with the same components and if you'll get the same problem with dual version something is wrong with your components, if it works then something wrong with the single board version.
What do you say?

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steffensen



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isak wrote:
You know...when I think about it i think no One built the single board version.
I think they all built the dual board version.
If you can...try building the dual board version with the same components and if you'll get the same problem with dual version something is wrong with your components, if it works then something wrong with the single board version.
What do you say?


Well, i would need someone to etch it for me then. Not sure it runs on 12v either? I believe i have the components for it tho, just about anyway..

But sure, that seems like a plan. That one seems to work anyway. (this one might too, i couldnt say at this point.)
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Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 539
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi:
Frequency Central is selling boards of the single ARP VCO based on this layout.
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/topic-65782.html
I think he build one, and there is a lot of people there building it.

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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
Hi:
Frequency Central is selling boards of the single ARP VCO based on this layout.
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/topic-65782.html
I think he build one, and there is a lot of people there building it.


Thats right. Smile
And he have the same issues as me. Which may be caused by the components i sourced for him, or not.

As he have been a true gent i do hope i didnt send him the wrong parts. Promise to hook him up if i ever track this down tho.
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isak



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's good news, I really looking foreword to see if you solve the problem!
Wating for updates!!!

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isak



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have a noob Q about this vco design..
Can it output the saw and the square simulteneouly like in the sh101?

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steffensen



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isak wrote:
Have a noob Q about this vco design..
Can it output the saw and the square simulteneouly like in the sh101?


Yes it can. Smile
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i really really want to build it!!!!
you know, i'll be adding this cool Saw to TRI - SINE as well Smile
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/Saw%20to%20tri-sin%20W.gif
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/Saw2tri-sine_L.pdf
http://hem.bredband.net/bersyn/VCO/Saw2tri-sine_K.pdf

i hope they will work good together Question

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isak



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

as i understand i have only 2 CV inputs.
1 for the 1v/Oct Kbd.
the other is free to use.
if i want more cv inputs can i connect it like i did in the pic?
(red lines, blue resistor)

thanks.


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steffensen



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I dont see why that wouldnt work.
However, when you look at Andys dual VCO version, he put the other FM input elsewhere - see pic.


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isak



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if you look closely you will see the dual ver and the single ver FM outputs are from the same spot Wink
now i know it will work Smile

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steffensen



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On my quest of troubleshooting this, i wonder..
For the 1nF, i used these:
http://www.polytrade.com.hk/up_product/PC12.pdf

Instead of the "recommended" MKS ones.

I have a bunch of these at home:
http://www.wima.com/EN/WIMA_FKP_2.pdf

Worth trying, or wouldnt it make any difference in the end?
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steffensen



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A mate of mine just gave me something to think about.
I got carried away here, thinking a Eurorack version meant 12v, but now after looking around here, i dont see anything like that mentioned. This might explain my stuck on high pitch issue.

So AndyR1960, do this really work on 12v, as eurorack usually do?
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steffensen



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not sure why i keep posting here, this thread seems to be pretty abandoned..

However, just wanted to update my effort of getting this thing to work on 12V. I managed to get the pitch down from the 2khz droning it was stuck on.
Now its lowest is at around 120hz instead, which is a lot easier on the ear heh.. (still not low enough tho imo)

I swapped the 2N3906 that i used instead of the 2N5910. Used a 2N4125 instead, and that worked a lot better.

It still wont track that good tho, its half a octave off more or less.

Tried swapping the 680pF with higher and lower values. 1000pF tracked a bit better actually (and lower in pitch - nice), but it still was off by at least 1/3 of a octave or so..
I even tried 6800pF, and that went really low. Razz Same tracking as with the 1000pF value tho.

I have a bunch of resistor to swap next, just hoping that someone might give some more ideas on what else to try/look for?
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi man Smile

Happy to hear your getting somewhere, hope you'll fix this thing soon!
Actually I'm following your progress, I've not abendoed you Wink

PMed you Smile

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Last edited by isak on Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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