electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
go to the radio page Live at electro-music.com radio 1 Please visit the chat
poster
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Connecting CMOS chips without killing them
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 1 of 1 [17 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:10 am    Post subject: Connecting CMOS chips without killing them Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, whats the best way to connect cmos chips? I'm trying to modulate one 40106 from another (instead of using 2 oscillators on the same chip). I'm connecting pin 2 from the first to pin 1 of the second. Will a diode pointing to the first be adequate? Cheers in advance!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JingleJoe



Joined: Nov 10, 2011
Posts: 878
Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here, circuit diagram please Smile
If you're doing what I think you are, then it is impossible, 40106's are just inverters, you can't modulate one with another. The second oscillator in the chain will just output the inverse of the first and the cap on it's input will likely short the first to ground.
Connect the outputs of both into gates or combine the outputs via diodes for more interesting sounds. Signal heterodyning is the key Wink

_________________
As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"


Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kinda answers a few other questions Joe, thanks! Geting a drawing together so I can show u what I mean
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quick pic of what I'm breadboarding..........(I reckon it's right Embarassed
I'm thinking a diode pointing at the first would prevent frying?

Anyway, the first does affect the second just like using two oscillators on the same chip.
While I'm here, how would you connect an LFO (40106 based) to a 40106 oscillator?


40106 pic.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  25.85 KB
 Viewed:  317 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

40106 pic.JPG


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JingleJoe



Joined: Nov 10, 2011
Posts: 878
Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That diode might work Smile try it out, I'd advise signal heterodyning with the diodes though, that will give you a more interesting result. Just like this!
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/mm2logic_181.gif
Because the 40106 oscillator is so basic, it is hard to do much with it but it makes a great standard oscillator for clocks and things like that.
You can make a really simple VCO from a 40106 an op amp and some other components which can be controlled with an LFO. See attachments.


GDAL VCO.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  6.74 KB
 Viewed:  12231 Time(s)

GDAL VCO.png



_________________
As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"


Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome stuff Joe!!! Many thanks again!!!!!!!!! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 2177
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doesn't the Weird Sound Generator use one 40106 osc to modulate others in some ways? I'm pretty sure it does....

Also, I think if you have some vactrols (Electronic Goldmine had them cheap recently) I also bet you could do something there....gotta find a way to get the frequency of the one oscillator to control the brightness of the vactrol...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 248
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

using a diode pointing towards the second inverter (oscillator) is essentially hard syncing the one to the other. heterodyning and hard sync are both useful sound modulation tools.

try making the first oscillator a very short pulse to sync the second oscillator with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JingleJoe



Joined: Nov 10, 2011
Posts: 878
Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Doesn't the Weird Sound Generator use one 40106 osc to modulate others in some ways? I'm pretty sure it does....

I thought it used some transistor and diode based logic circuitry to gate them? oh no wait, i think it uses a transistor similarly to the above circuit but in a less effective way. I'd need to check when not sleep deprived.

Quote:

Also, I think if you have some vactrols (Electronic Goldmine had them cheap recently) I also bet you could do something there....gotta find a way to get the frequency of the one oscillator to control the brightness of the vactrol...

Look up the LM331

_________________
As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"


Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 5581
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep that works,. that's actually how I build 'Starvin Marvin' Cool .

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

(filter comes from WSG, but when I build the thing I didn't remember that that's where I saved the design from,.
so it's kinda funny how the rest of the circuit is similar to it Smile )

_________________
"My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 2177
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, Joe, but I wanted to do this for the CMOS challenge Smile

I will have to keep the F to V converter with the LM331 in my back pocket though, thank you....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 248
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Ah, Joe, but I wanted to do this for the CMOS challenge Smile

I will have to keep the F to V converter with the LM331 in my back pocket though, thank you....


check out the f/v section on the gakken schematic. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FMBJEkaC8Lw/SLrL4GIAcJI/AAAAAAAAYNE/W8Mc8VW6GfY/s1600/SX150_SchemV2.PNG

you could probably pretty easily replace the opamp with a cmos inverter in linear operation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 2177
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 16

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool! I will give that a shot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not sure how it works but my schemo works!!!!! (see top of this thread).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So to sum up, as long as I put a 100k resistor between each chip I'll be fine? Diodes another day!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JingleJoe



Joined: Nov 10, 2011
Posts: 878
Location: Lancashire, England
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The inputs of CMOS gates or other ICs are designed to be really high impedance, so a 100k resistor in series would not be necessary, however if you are connecting an output to things, follow the possible current paths around and make sure you haven't shorted it to ground or to V+. A resistor greater than 1k on the output will be enough to prevent damage by an accidental short circuit but with proper planning is should not be needed Smile
_________________
As a mad scientist I am ruled by the dictum of science: "I could be wrong about this but lets find out"


Green Dungeon Alchemist Laboratories
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Joe.......thats given me enough confidence!!!! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 1 of 1 [17 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use