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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Connecting CMOS chips without killing them
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astroman



Joined: Sep 13, 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:10 am    Post subject: Connecting CMOS chips without killing them Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, whats the best way to connect cmos chips? I'm trying to modulate one 40106 from another (instead of using 2 oscillators on the same chip). I'm connecting pin 2 from the first to pin 1 of the second. Will a diode pointing to the first be adequate? Cheers in advance!!!
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here, circuit diagram please Smile
If you're doing what I think you are, then it is impossible, 40106's are just inverters, you can't modulate one with another. The second oscillator in the chain will just output the inverse of the first and the cap on it's input will likely short the first to ground.
Connect the outputs of both into gates or combine the outputs via diodes for more interesting sounds. Signal heterodyning is the key Wink

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astroman



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kinda answers a few other questions Joe, thanks! Geting a drawing together so I can show u what I mean
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astroman



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quick pic of what I'm breadboarding..........(I reckon it's right Embarassed
I'm thinking a diode pointing at the first would prevent frying?

Anyway, the first does affect the second just like using two oscillators on the same chip.
While I'm here, how would you connect an LFO (40106 based) to a 40106 oscillator?


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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That diode might work Smile try it out, I'd advise signal heterodyning with the diodes though, that will give you a more interesting result. Just like this!
http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/mm2logic_181.gif
Because the 40106 oscillator is so basic, it is hard to do much with it but it makes a great standard oscillator for clocks and things like that.
You can make a really simple VCO from a 40106 an op amp and some other components which can be controlled with an LFO. See attachments.


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astroman



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome stuff Joe!!! Many thanks again!!!!!!!!! Smile
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Doesn't the Weird Sound Generator use one 40106 osc to modulate others in some ways? I'm pretty sure it does....

Also, I think if you have some vactrols (Electronic Goldmine had them cheap recently) I also bet you could do something there....gotta find a way to get the frequency of the one oscillator to control the brightness of the vactrol...
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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

using a diode pointing towards the second inverter (oscillator) is essentially hard syncing the one to the other. heterodyning and hard sync are both useful sound modulation tools.

try making the first oscillator a very short pulse to sync the second oscillator with.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Doesn't the Weird Sound Generator use one 40106 osc to modulate others in some ways? I'm pretty sure it does....

I thought it used some transistor and diode based logic circuitry to gate them? oh no wait, i think it uses a transistor similarly to the above circuit but in a less effective way. I'd need to check when not sleep deprived.

Quote:

Also, I think if you have some vactrols (Electronic Goldmine had them cheap recently) I also bet you could do something there....gotta find a way to get the frequency of the one oscillator to control the brightness of the vactrol...

Look up the LM331

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep that works,. that's actually how I build 'Starvin Marvin' Cool .

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

(filter comes from WSG, but when I build the thing I didn't remember that that's where I saved the design from,.
so it's kinda funny how the rest of the circuit is similar to it Smile )

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elmegil



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, Joe, but I wanted to do this for the CMOS challenge Smile

I will have to keep the F to V converter with the LM331 in my back pocket though, thank you....
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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Ah, Joe, but I wanted to do this for the CMOS challenge Smile

I will have to keep the F to V converter with the LM331 in my back pocket though, thank you....


check out the f/v section on the gakken schematic. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FMBJEkaC8Lw/SLrL4GIAcJI/AAAAAAAAYNE/W8Mc8VW6GfY/s1600/SX150_SchemV2.PNG

you could probably pretty easily replace the opamp with a cmos inverter in linear operation.
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool! I will give that a shot.
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astroman



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not sure how it works but my schemo works!!!!! (see top of this thread).
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astroman



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So to sum up, as long as I put a 100k resistor between each chip I'll be fine? Diodes another day!!!
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The inputs of CMOS gates or other ICs are designed to be really high impedance, so a 100k resistor in series would not be necessary, however if you are connecting an output to things, follow the possible current paths around and make sure you haven't shorted it to ground or to V+. A resistor greater than 1k on the output will be enough to prevent damage by an accidental short circuit but with proper planning is should not be needed Smile
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astroman



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Joe.......thats given me enough confidence!!!! Smile
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