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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
NMG2 Open Source Editor
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Lfohead



Joined: Jul 29, 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing work, i have no words.. WOW, i wish i had pot with gold to give you..
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brunov



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I wish you had! Very Happy

Just kiddin', I''m glad you like it!

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My new G2 editor FMX : http://www.bverhue.nl/g2dev/?page_id=17
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kakihara



Joined: Oct 21, 2012
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Location: Montréal, Québec

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Sorry for my noobness... does this editor works as a stand alone or we still need to have the synth attached to it?
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brunov



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi

It's only an editor so it only works with the G2 attached.

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sempervirent



Joined: Sep 11, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Windows only? Delphi? I had to check the date on my Mac and make sure it wasn't 1997 anymore.
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Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sempervirent wrote:
Windows only? Delphi? I had to check the date on my Mac and make sure it wasn't 1997 anymore.


Time for you to boot up the ol' XCode and code up a Mac version then! Wink

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sempervirent



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Antimon wrote:
sempervirent wrote:
Windows only? Delphi? I had to check the date on my Mac and make sure it wasn't 1997 anymore.


Time for you to boot up the ol' XCode and code up a Mac version then!


I know, I know. But in the spirit of avoiding obsolescence and making an open-source editor, it seems odd to develop for one platform only... particularly a platform that is itself becoming obsolete.

There is now a cross-platform Delphi compiler called XE2 but I don't know how it handles the GUI differences between the two platforms.

The Clavia G2 editor still works fine on Mac OS 10.8 and my old XP machine so I personally have no need for the open-source editor... yet.
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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sempervirent wrote:
particularly a platform that is itself becoming obsolete.


Do you mean Delphi is becoming obsolete? Maybe... I've made this in Delphi for windows because I don't have a mac, and happen to have access to a Delphi xe2 compiler. It's also the language I'm most familiar with.

But I already compiled it with Freepascal for Linux once and did a testrun. Mac is also possible with Delphi xe2 or Freepascal.


It's not so much the tools that are the bottleneck for developement, it's the amount of time people are willing to put in to it.


All the knowledge how to communicate with the G2 is in the source code and pascal isn't a very difficult language to understand. Someone familiar with c++ should have no problem understanding it.

To give you a few examples, this code defines the g2 file structure:

http://sourceforge.net/p/nmg2editor/code/118/tree/trunk/Source/Common/g2_file.pas

and this unit defines the g2 messages

http://sourceforge.net/p/nmg2editor/code/118/tree/trunk/Source/Common/g2_mess.pas

You can read all the source code on the sourceforge page.

Whatever tool you use for coding, the difficult parts for crossplatform development will be in the peripherals: usb interface, midi interface, graphics.

For the moment I'm sticking to Delphi/pascal but willing to help out anyone who wants to port it to another language. Wink

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Antimon



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, this has everything to do with me being bored and wanting to try out something simple, and nothing to do with brunov's editor (which looks awesome!) I felt like trying to make an NM editor in HTML, mainly because I've been having a lot of fun with javascript lately and this felt like it was right up HTML's creek, with the whole draggable boxes thing and whatnot.

Here's where I am right now: http://www.df.lth.se/~flash/tmp2/enemgeeto2/

You can drag OSCA boxes into the grid, and then twiddle knobs and click buttons - that's it.

I may get bored with this soon - it's not really a project yet and there will be a large heap of work before this is useful even as a mock GUI, your work in such a short time is incredible brunov! - but I was thinking @brunov: can your server backend be modified easily to talk HTTP (I haven't looked at the source yet)? Then maybe this could be used as an alternative GUI. And if someone felt like exposing their G2 to the world this could be used as a public editor interface for anyone to abuse on the internet.

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ha! looks good antimon!

There used to be a some good cable simulation Java code online.

http://lab.andre-michelle.com/cable-interface

But seems to be offline now, but maybe you can find the code floating somewhere though. You may find some starters here (if you're still bored) http://www.actionscript.org/forums/archive/forums.html3/t-222464.html

The network objects I use (Indy) also contain a HTTP server object, so I guess communication using http shoud be posssible. Maybe not for the very high volume messages like volume and led data.

With most "patch building" messages, it's like the client sends a command message "add module" with parameters, then waits for the server to send a reply.

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I couldn't help but try out if these cross platform claims of Delphi XE2 where true, and to my surprise, I actually got it working Shocked Including usb interface!

Here is a screenshot. It's running on snow leopard in oracle's virtual box.

Graphics are a bit basic, but the patch there is actually loaded from my engine over the usb interface!

Had to figure a couple of things out of course, but I was surprised how easy it went. With linux and freepascal I had a much harder time.


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fairplay



Joined: Apr 13, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:
I couldn't help but try out if these cross platform claims of Delphi XE2 where true, and to my surprise, I actually got it working Shocked Including usb interface!


...yeah! thumb up - that is great news!! - thank you for trying!!!...
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sempervirent



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brunov wrote:
I couldn't help but try out if these cross platform claims of Delphi XE2 where true, and to my surprise, I actually got it working :shock:


Excellent!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm .. about time to order XE3 then Smile

Great news bruno!

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Lfohead



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell

Whats ure thought on notification mail to all members once brunov think this is done?

After all the work and effort brunov have put into this, i think its completely worth it..

Just a idea, cheers mate
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xav



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

Antimon wrote:
sempervirent wrote:
Windows only? Delphi? I had to check the date on my Mac and make sure it wasn't 1997 anymore.


Time for you to boot up the ol' XCode and code up a Mac version then!


I know, I know. But in the spirit of avoiding obsolescence and making an open-source editor, it seems odd to develop for one platform only... particularly a platform that is itself becoming obsolete.


Haha, I didn't understand anything; I thought you meant Mac was the obsolete platform... and I was planning to change to be "Brunov,s editor compatible".
Anyway, thank you for that work. I wish I had a pot with gold to give you... and for Tim, Howard, Rob, Blue Hell, Varice, iPassenger, Roland, Afro88, 3Phase, ian-s, chet, ik, davep, King Rat, dorremifasol and all the other great programmers and posters of this community.
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varice



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xav wrote:
...I wish I had a pot with gold to give you... and for Tim, Howard, Rob, Blue Hell, Varice, iPassenger, Roland, Afro88, 3Phase, ian-s, chet, ik, davep, King Rat, dorremifasol and all the other great programmers and posters of this community.

Xavier, thanks very much for the shout out. I’m so glad that you appreciate my contributions to the G2 forum. But to include me with so many other excellent G2 patchers and posters that are so much better than me salut , I don’t feel worthy Embarassed

I have learned very much about modular patching and other synthesist techniques with the help of the generous contributions to this G2 forum, and even beyond to the Lunetta and DIY sections. I second your praise. This electro-music forum is a great community.

And here, Bruno goes well beyond the call of duty to work on an open source G2 Editor to help extend the life of this excellent synth… Thanks so much for your effort Bruno Exclamation

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey xav, frankly I don't worry too much about things getting obsolete. There's always someone who finds a trick to get the old stuff working again.

This os editor is just something I like working on in it's own right because it's something different from the software I have to develop for work and it's nice to have discussions about it here on the forum with you all. Anyways averyone, thanx for the support! Very Happy

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Modularmind



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How are things moving along with this? It such an awesome project. I am so eager to try it out on my Mac when it's ready for us programming illiterates how only know delphi as the home for a ancient greek oracle...
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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Such a pity that you are a programming illiterate Smile But maybe you're an computer graphics artist? I have discovered that I'm really bad at computer graphics.

I think I can maybe do the application code part of an osx application, because Delphi lets me compile for Osx, but when it comes to specific osx knowledge or computer graphics I'll have to throw in the towel.

What I would like to do is make some sort of application framework that is decoupled from the graphics. So someone who is more capable can design a skin for the application. I could reuse a lot of the code that handles the loading/saving of g2-files and sending messages over the usb interface from the windows application.

The main thing that would have to be made from scratch is the gui. I would like something that you can zoom in and pan. That's not so hard to make in the new delphi compiler since they are all focussing nowadays on the growing tablet market. The only thing is that you have to use graphics that allow scaling.

So in the screenshot I made a test application and with the 'Zoom' slider you can enlarge the gui. You can see in the zoomed-in picture that the bitmap/raster graphics become very ugly when enlarged, for example the waveform icons on the LfoA.

What I would like to do is enable the application to load SVG graphics (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics) in stead of the bitmaps and maybe also for some of the controls and panels. So anyone could design parts of the gui using for example http://inkscape.org/ and then give it the appropriate filename so the application can use it in the gui.

There will be quite a lot graphics that have to be designed.

But that's basically the status right now: a couple of ideas and modest progress on the application.

The main thing is that I don't want to work on it alone anymore, I think the project needs some other people involved not to grind to a halt.


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3phase



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

do you think it would be possible to port the editor ios for the apple i-pad?

And can you explain a bit more what graphics work you would need?

greets sven
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brunov



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think there's a good chance the editor code can be compiled for iOS one day. The makers of Delphi are working on a compiler for iOS, as you can read here:

http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi/ios-development

But it's only in a beta stage right now.

Apart from compiling the code, there's also the question of the USB interface. I'm using the Libusb library. There are versions of libusb for Windows, Osx and Linux, but I don't now about iOS.

And another thing I'm not really sure about is how the edtor will perform on an Ipad. Maybe someone knows an ipad application that's a bit similar as the g2 editor, so we can get an idea what is possible. I don't have an ipad myself.

In any case, if the editor is to run on an ipad in future, the user interface has to be adapted and that's also necessary for making a cross platform Windows/OSX version.

To make the edtor ipad-ready, you'll probably have to be able to zoom-in, zoom-out, pan etc. Otherwise you'll never be able to operate the modules or connect cables with your fingers.

So here's the idea I have:

There is the SVG graphics standard (http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/) that is developed for webbrowsers that allows smooth scaling. And there is already some support of this type of graphics in Delphi.

What I would like to do is to develop some user interface objects based on the SGV standard. So the graphics design can be done seperately from the application coding.

In the current g2 editor are basically two types of gui objects:

- static graphics (icons, bitmaps etc. pictures of waveforms etc.)
- controls (buttons, knobs, sliders, leds, volume indicators etc)

About the static graphics:

What I could do is export all the images from the current editor to file using a specific naming convention. These can then be recreated as SVG graphic, using for example Inscape. Because of the naming convetion, the application knows where to use them in the gui.

About the controls:

That's a bit more complex beause the application must be able to change certain parts of the graphic to animate them.

In SGV different parts of a graphic can be given an ID.

For example a led has two states so in the SVG graphic maybe two layers can be created representing the two states of the led. Then the application can turn the led on by making layer with ID2 invisible or off by making layer with ID1 invisible.

Maybe for each control a skeleton SGV graphic can be created already containing the layers/parts with the appropriate ID's to link them in the application. Then the graphics designer can adapt the skeleton SGV to make it more visiually appealing.


What I would like to do first is to develop the SGV object for Delphi and to make some sample/test applications for Windows and OSX to test some things out.

I'll post them here if I have something ready, but it'll take some time...

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My new G2 editor FMX : http://www.bverhue.nl/g2dev/?page_id=17
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3phase



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds interesting.. i am no graphic designer..but maybe would like to help..

maybe its possible to design a base layout and than just split the mindless repetetive task to get it transfered to all modules?

anyway..just downloaded the editor and try it..
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3phase



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i just try your editor and read about the hidden modules..really nice..

where are the limitations of the opn source editor right now?

is it possible to enable some other of the hidden modules? like the blue to redconverter or the dx env?
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brunov



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your offer to help out Sven. Smile

I guess you already found the help file I wrote:
http://www.bverhue.nl/G2EditorHelp/NMG2_Open_source_editor_help.html

The main limitations of the editor are in my opinion:
- No OSX version yet
- No patch load calculation :memory/cycles

And then there are some minor things missing:
- Switching a module to another using the icon on the left top
- Copying morphs/copying parameters
- Som bugs in the midi control pacakage I used

About the missing modules. I found these trying out some "add module" message with different parameters.

In the list shown here, apart from the Driver/Resonator only the Blue2Red and Red2Blue also seem to work. Any idea what these could be used for?


// ModuleType ShortName
// ========== =========
// - AR-Env
// AudioIn
// Blue2Red -> Testmodule
// BusIn
// 77 ClkDivFix -> Doesn't seem to work
// 35 Driver -> Works!
// EnvDX
// LfoD
// Mixer6-1A
// Mixer6-1B
// OutBusA
// OutBusB
// PeakFollow
// 101 PolarFade -> Doesn't seem to work
// 120 PolarPan -> Doesn't seem to work
// 10 PulseOsc -> Doesn't seem to work
// Red2Blue -> Testmodule
// 56 Resonator -> Works!
// 207 RndChaos -> Doesn't seem to work, but shows up with id 6,95,136,138
// RndDistr
// RndState
// RndStep
// SeqA
// 104 ShelvEQ -> Doesn't seem to work
// 14 SyncOsc -> Doesn't seem to work

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