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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » YuSynth
Steiner VCF
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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:46 am    Post subject: Steiner VCF
Subject description: A few questions
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Hello again, a few weeks back I posted some questions about the VCA. Al the questions are anwsered and it is working like a charm. I also made 2 ADSR modules, 1 worked right away, the other one burned himself because of a solder bridge between the ground and the negative side xD

To the point. Today i'm going to start to work on the Steiner VCF. Etching the PCB drilling the holes. The simple things. I only got a few questions about some values of resistors and 1 potentiometer.

R11 must be a 380 ohm resistor. I couldnt find that value which seems very strange to me. Does it exist?

R1, R2, R17 needs to be 10k or it has to be adjusted to some other value. Is the basic value of 10k good enough?

I couldn't find a 2.5K Trimmer. Which other value do I need? 2K or 5K?

The resonsnce pot doesn't have a value. I ordered a 25k lin potentiometer. Will it work? Is the range good enough?

SW1 needs to be make before break. I've ordered this one:
http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php/info/p504_Rotary-switch-3P4T-sealed.html

Will it do? If you guys can help me it would be nice.

Thanks already
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1221
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
R11 must be a 380 ohm resistor. I couldnt find that value which seems very strange to me. Does it exist?


Actually it's 390 ohm (as seen on the schematics) which can be found. I will correct the BOM ASAP, funny that nobody ever mentionned this discrepancy before.

By default R1,R2,R17 are 10K, but if you intend to use the filter in special conditions with very different levels you may have to use different values.
I would recommend that you use 10K.

Use a 2.2K trimmer.
If you look at the schemo you will find the value of the resonance pot (P3) and it is also listed in the BOM as P3

Concerning the rotary you should ask to Musikding, one can't tell from the info on the site, it can be either a make-before-break or a break-before-make.

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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yves, Thanks for your reply. You helped me with this once again. I guess there is one thing I mixed up. The trimmer was something I could find. But the 2.2k or 2.5k lin potentiometer was the thing I couldn't find.

Also in your BOM there are only 4 potentiometers listed. I guess there need to be 5 of them.

The trimming should be quite easy according to the page. But when do you know when you've got a good v/oct tracking. Is there a way to measure it?

1 more thing. I decided to build the MiniMoog filter at first. I'm almost done with the PCB, matched the trannies by Hfe on my multimeter (hope it will do) but there is something i need to ask. How to match the 47nF capacitors. I know you can do it with a good DMM, but I don't have one. Is there another way?

Alright one more question. If I'm ready to trim the MiniMoog VCF, what node do I need to measure exactly? The middle node from the trannie to the 100pf capacitor? I'm not sure how to interpret the sentence.

Hope you can help me again. Thanks already Smile
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1221
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aottens wrote:
Yves, Thanks for your reply. You helped me with this once again. I guess there is one thing I mixed up. The trimmer was something I could find. But the 2.2k or 2.5k lin potentiometer was the thing I couldn't find.

Also in your BOM there are only 4 potentiometers listed. I guess there need to be 5 of them.

The trimming should be quite easy according to the page. But when do you know when you've got a good v/oct tracking. Is there a way to measure it?

Here one is not looking for a perfect/accurate V/Oct tracking, as it is said for
the minimoog filter :
Set the filter to oscillation mode
Play a tune and check the goodness of the tracking
Slightly adjust the trimmer to achieve a good chromatic tracking (check by ear).

Otherwise you can use an electronic tuner for keyboards.

Quote:
1 more thing. I decided to build the MiniMoog filter at first. I'm almost done with the PCB, matched the trannies by Hfe on my multimeter (hope it will do) but there is something i need to ask. How to match the 47nF capacitors. I know you can do it with a good DMM, but I don't have one. Is there another way?

Not really simple but you may use sinusoidal generator and connect a 10K resistor and the cap in series at the output of the generator. Next set the frequency of the generator to 500 Hz and measure (in AC mode) the voltage at the legs of the capacitor. You must then select the capacitors that give you the same voltage within 1% tolerance.

Quote:
Alright one more question. If I'm ready to trim the MiniMoog VCF, what node do I need to measure exactly? The middle node from the trannie to the 100pf capacitor? I'm not sure how to interpret the sentence.

Hope you can help me again. Thanks already Smile

That's correct the node that is common to the 100pF cap, R9 (1.8K) and R11 (100K) .

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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alright, can figure that out now Smile thanks. 1 more thing. P3 the resonant pot must be a 2.2K or a 2.5K potentiometer. I can't find it anywhere. The only values I can find are 2K or 5K. I'm using alpha potentiometers through my whole synth. Which value should I use?
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1221
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2K is fine and the maximum resonance may be bellow auto-oscillation, in such a case you may increase the value of R16 (560 or 680 ohm).
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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello, I've built the filter, but there are some problems with it. And I don't really know how to solve them.

I've checked the connections and the parts, and everything seems fine.

1. De cutoff frequency potentiometer is not really working. It doesn't seem to work on either position (LP HP BP AP)

2. The output level of HP and BP are really low

3. If I adjust the control level, nothing happens.

What can I check, and are there some measurements I can perform? I've built the CA3096 version btw.
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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No one who can help me with this?
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LFLab



Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Posts: 191
Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etched a board for this filter, and building it today, but it is the 2sc1583 version. At first startup i got some wonkiness, resonance wasn't working. And then i noticed this filter also has allpass response and needs a 4 position rotary [facepalm], didn't have a tl071 so put in 5534, but i have some lf355 and that's in now.
It seems to work for the most part though, did you get yours working Aottens?
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LFLab



Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Posts: 191
Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finished it, and bolted it in the modular, works great. That resonance has some character!

Didn't bother to do a proper panel:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Quite a straightforward build, I used 2n7 caps instead of 2n2, all other values are as mentioned in the BOM.
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El Mop



Joined: Aug 20, 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
I have the same problem as mentioned by Aottens before.
Very low output with highpass and bandpass and very very ineffective cutoff control.
Lowpass gives a loud signal but seems to be completely unfiltered with no effect when turning the cutoff pot.
I did a layout by myself, omitted the buffer amps and swapped the rotary switch for a three-way-switch, since I don´t need allpass-mode.
Checked everything twice and couldn´t find a mistake.
Any idea someone?

Last edited by El Mop on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1221
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

post a good photo of the your PCB, component side and track side such that we can check.

By the way the output buffer is acting as an amplifier X20 to x40 and is quite useful as a matter of fact.

Which version have you built : CA3096 or 2SC1583 ?

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El Mop



Joined: Aug 20, 2012
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I´ve built the 2SC1583 version with yet unmatched 2N3904.
I just figured out that I used 82K instead of 82R for R18!
I will give it a try a with a 510R and 100R in parallel since a lack of a 82R resistor and will report then.
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes chances are it will work better with a 82R for R18.
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El Mop



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It´s working!
Thank you!
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oculus



Joined: Oct 30, 2011
Posts: 30
Location: Iceland, Reykjavik

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there. first of all, thanks for all the great information on your site Yves.
iv´e been building some of the modules you have there, and couldn´t be mor ehappy with them.

anyway i tried breadboarding the steiner filter today,
the Ca3096 version, at first it wasn´t working until i noticed on the datasheet of the ca3096 that in many of the circuits there, pin16(SUBSTRATE) was connected to ground or to the negtive voltage, so i tried connect pin 16 of the ca3096 to ground and then the filter seemed to be working, should it be connected this way ?
because i didn´t see anything about it in the schematic on your site.

thanks again,
Fridfinnur
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1221
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oculus wrote:
i noticed on the datasheet of the ca3096 that in many of the circuits there, pin16(SUBSTRATE) was connected to ground or to the negtive voltage, so i tried connect pin 16 of the ca3096 to ground and then the filter seemed to be working, should it be connected this way ?
because i didn´t see anything about it in the schematic on your site.

thanks again,
Fridfinnur


Yes it is not mentioned on the schematics but I took care of this in the PCB design. if you have a look to the PCB drawing at my site you will see that the pin 16 (as well as all unused pin) is connected to the most negative point of the circuit (junction between R24, R25 and C7).

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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Still no luck over here. But I made a picture today. It's the CA3096 version. Yves, can you perhaps give it a look and see if I made some horrible mistake which I didn't see? Smile

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/391011/Synths/_DJJ8358.JPG
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Pilastik



Joined: May 17, 2010
Posts: 5
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Check your diodes, one is connected backwards.
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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, thanks, 1 of the horrible mistakes I was talking about earlier Razz maybe it will fix it!
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Aottens



Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Posts: 24
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

IT'S ALIVE! And it's really kicking! This is a really nice filter now it works. So stupid that I looked over that diode. But let's face it, if you stare to long at something, eventually you won't see the simple mistakes you made Smile Thanks again!
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