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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Anyone built Jorg's 909 kick PCB?
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PickNick



Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 82
Location: BP

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ov course!
Smile

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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not professional and I've needed ~40 hours in 3 days to find, test and solve these errors. Now it is working fully and with much greater sounds than the original! I believe there is till room for great improvement and therefor was hoping that someone could help us professionally to achieve that goal!

Sound examples with TL07X's:
http://modular-synth.org/OLDfiles/TR-909bd_under_costruction.wav
http://modular-synth.org/OLDfiles/TR909_16bit44KHz.wav

Sound examples with OPA's:
http://modular-synth.org/OLDfiles/909clickMod.ogg
http://modular-synth.org/OLDfiles/909vsJoMoX.wav

EDIT: WAV's links update


TR-909_mods.pdf
 Description:
TR-909 BD Debugged

Download
 Filename:  TR-909_mods.pdf
 Filesize:  217.63 KB
 Downloaded:  354 Time(s)


Last edited by furio on Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PickNick



Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 82
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks furio!
i will try it soon!

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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are welcome, enjoy this really fresh and esthetic sound Wink
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dubdummies



Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Argentina
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

furio wrote:
I'm not professional and I've needed ~40 hours in 3 days to find, test and solve these errors. Now it is working fully and with much greater sounds than the original! I believe there is till room for great improvement and therefor was hoping that someone could help us professionally to achieve that goal!

Sound examples with TL07X's:
http://demosynth.dyndns.org/files/TR-909bd_under_costruction.wav
http://demosynth.dyndns.org/files/TR909_16bit44KHz.wav

Sound examples with OPA's:
http://demosynth.dyndns.org/files/909clickMod.ogg
http://demosynth.dyndns.org/files/909vsJoMoX.wav


I´ve etched the pcb today... go im gonna go stright to your mods!
Will post news (i hope goods!) soon!

Thanks a lot!

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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 885
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

damn-- I'm pretty sure I gave up on this circuit and chucked the PCB!!!! I really wanted it to work... and now I ruined it Crying or Very sad
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ericcoleridge wrote:
damn-- I'm pretty sure I gave up on this circuit and chucked the PCB!!!! I really wanted it to work... and now I ruined it Crying or Very sad

damn!!!
The PCB is fine, you should cut only a track Wink
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sonicwarrior



Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: Cologne, Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This PCB is in my drawer stuffed with the wrong parts apart from the 330R that should be a 330K.

Thanks for the corrections/mods. Smile
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chguigoz



Joined: Mar 02, 2012
Posts: 13
Location: lille france

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello !
Thankfully forums like this exist!
I followed the changes to the PCB and the values ​​of certain components.
This module works perfectly for me except the noise generator and there is a little too much attack.
The amount of noise has no audible effect.
For adjustment of attack, i used a potentiometer of 1k instead of 470 and I will finally use a 2.2 k. Perhaps this is due to the 12 v supply because it is mounted in a eurorack and there would be an imbalance between the vco level and the pulse generator.
But the results are very good and capable of near real 909 but with additional features and setting ranges wider.
I used BC547C transistors instead of 549b and BC557C instead of 559a .
The op amp of vco is replaced by a 4558, this gives a better waveform.
Is this someone was able to correctly operate the noise generator?
I think realize the true 4006 generator of the 909.
For those interested, I found a wonderful site:
http://www.msc175.de/module.htm
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi chguigoz!
I use 15V-Euro Systems... the attack works fine for me... with a very bad 47-50K Pot in series with the marked 1K, like 35-37K measured value, because it is possoble to adjust the impact tone.
I dont like this noise, the pot effect is audible in only some setting conditions. If you make the original noise circuit, post it! Do you think it is possible with one noise to serve more (2-3) TR-909-BD Modules?
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chguigoz



Joined: Mar 02, 2012
Posts: 13
Location: lille france

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi.
Yes of course. Have a look on my post above, click on the link and go to module menu. There is some pdf about pcb, schema for 909 and 808 building. The noise circuit for 909 is connect to clap, bassdrum,snare and toms. This is a simple circuit with 4006 cmos chips based on the original.
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chguigoz,
I don't have time all summer to try it... Your Link looks fine, but I've tried the TR-808 Noise PCB from msc175.de and the Pink & White was not like the original and not workinq. If you have time this summer to try the original noise solution, it will be much appreciated.


noise_TR-909.JPG
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noise_TR-909.JPG


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chguigoz



Joined: Mar 02, 2012
Posts: 13
Location: lille france

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The schema posted is the same shema as that of msc175. I'll try it.
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

chguigoz wrote:
The schema posted is the same shema as that of msc175. I'll try it.


Let us know how it works Smile

I am interested in building this kick drum as well!

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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Greetings folks!

I have succesfully cloned the 909 kick, and it works and sounds proper!

It includes the original CD4006 noise circuitry as well as an input trigger conditioner.


All of the other clones in this thread have basic errors in them...easy to make since this schematic is beautifully complex Smile

I will have PCBs for sale soon. I expect to order them before the end of the weekend, and they should be here in about 3 weeks from then.

I will be providing build documentation, Mouser parts list as well as supplying the rare, original transistors if people want them. You can use standard, common BC series transistors if you want as well, making it very easy (and cheap) to build.

electro-music thread for the project here: http://electro-music.com/forum/post-368108.html

Here is a crappy demo video. Excuse the poor sound quality. I will record some audio samples shortly:


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delayed



Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just subing to this to get updates.
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

delayed wrote:
just subing to this to get updates.


Boards are ordered now Smile

I'm updating the specific electro-music thread for my project more often than here...this was just a shameless thread hijack since I knew there may be some folks that run into a brick wall here with the other designs out there!

So, subscribe to this thread instead if you're looking for updates on my 909 project:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-368108.html

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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear HexInverter thank you! I have build your clone and it works great! However the Jorg's version sounds more clean/clear, rich and powerful! Wink
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HexInverter



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

furio wrote:
Dear HexInverter thank you! I have build your clone and it works great! However the Jorg's version sounds more clean/clear, rich and powerful! Wink


You're welcome Smile Glad you like it.

Hmm, well, that's interesting...Jorg's version is not complete! It's missing the noise generator, for one. Did you build the noise generator and include it on Jorg's?

Also, they are identical! We both cloned the exact same circuit and did not make any changes to the sound generating circuitry...

The fact is that the TR-X0X machines were all analogue, so, the final characteristic of the drum's sound is determined by hundreds of resistors, capacitors and transistor tolerances in the circuit (ranging from 5% to 20%), so, the end result is that EVERY TR-X0X machine off the assembly line sounded different than the others.

If you really want the "perfect" sound, you should hand-select every capacitor and resistor from a big pile of them to be closest to the value printed on the board/the schematic. This will bring the component values as close to the values the Roland engineers designed for.

Also, what voltages are you running each off of?

You could also try some different values for C25 until you get the exact trigger response you are looking for.

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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I used the same +/-15V power, the same BC Transistors, the same 1% Resistors, the same 2.5-5% Capacitors and the seme OPAx134. In your 1:1 clone, the one that would be the most bothersome is the too much noise during the decay. Maybe that without the electrolytic might sound more powerful. Certainly the duration of the trigger has a fundamental role.

In your clone I used PanasonicFC Electrolytics. What would you recommend to use?

Both modules have their own beauty and everyone should have them. Perhaps the clone 1:1 would be more suitable for Hard Core Distortions.
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
Posts: 703
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello guys.

I was reading this post twise Smile
Thanks for the mods update!!!
I'll be doing the board in few days and I have a question on some parts.
I see the output cap is 560pF, is it ceramic or cause its the output it must be quality one? like mica and so..
Another thing, Next to cut trace there is a 47k and next to 47k there is 47ohm, is it 47ohm for sure?

Thanks in advace,
Isak E.

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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Isak,
I was only trying the 560pF Styroflex Caps.
This 47 Ohms Resistor looks right... see also the schematics by HexInverter... Look at the Resistor marked with R23 on the label... http://cv.hexinverter.net//files/projects/neinohnein--kick-drum-v10/NeinOhNein_KICK_v1_schem.png
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isak



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank Furio.

I have notice that there is no Tone pot?
In some others designs I saw a Tone pot.
Or maybe there is but I missed it?

Cheers

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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Isak,

Oh I think that you have missed it... there are two Tone pots, Tone Depth and Tone Decay.

Ciao
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isak



Joined: Dec 13, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Furio,

It's marked in the PDF as Tune not Tone.
This is why I got confused, I though to my self how can it be that I got pitch and tune? Now it's all cleared Smile
ok, got it, it's Tone not Tune.

Cheers.

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