electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Roland GR series emulator? GR300 esp
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 1 [9 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
phoofk



Joined: Feb 05, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: montreal

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Roland GR series emulator? GR300 esp Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wondering if anyone has any insight as to the architecture of the GR 300 guitar synth, i just got a Fender with a roland pickup and I want to shred on some Adrian belew kind of "reed"-like, infinite sustain sound that sounds like a clarinet or some arab reed instrument, like snake-charming sound.

feel me?

I'm sure the 300 isn't that complex in signal path, but just wondering if this means anything to anyone in terms of what i'm trying to do.

gr 700 i know is based on JX8P, so perhaps there exists something to emulate that already.

aright! thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3618
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 254
G2 patch files: 95

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome phoofk!

You have posted this in a subforum dedicated to Nord Modular synths. Maybe it will get better attention if you post in the "strings and things" forum instead - or a moderator moves this thread there.

Slightly on topic, I don't know anything about the GR300 (I have a VG99), but is that the new Fender with built-in GK mic? Is it nice? Smile

_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1017
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 6
G2 patch files: 211

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

I dabbled a bit with this topic, however with inconclusive results. The thread is here:
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-32369.html

First of all, you have to be aware that the GR-300 is a totally different beast than any guitar synthesizer that came after it. All later designs work via the MIDI protocol, meaning that the sonic activity of the the guitar strings is converted into digital MIDI note and pitch-bend information (and perhaps more), which then drive a synthesizer module probably optimized for this kind of performance. This approach has benefits and drawbacks. The benefits are that a guitar thus can theoretically drive any kind of MIDI sound generator, and the MIDI data can further also be recorded and manipulated in any way. The drawback is that this conversion introduces noticeable latency, which however was optimized with every new generation -but still is always present.

The GR-300 works totally differently, in that the activity of the vibrating strings actually forms a vital part of the actual sound generation. In a nutshell, the GR-300 features six incomplete sawtooth oscillators (one per string) -incomplete in that they do not have a built-in comparator that will discharge the core capacitor when a certain voltage is reached. So actually, they don't oscillate by themselves at all. They are, however, hard-synchronized to the zero-crossings of the waveform produced by the corresponding string. So actually it's the vibrating string that will trigger the discharge -the string becomes part of the oscillator. Simple, genius. Inevitable frequency-depending differences in amplitude are dealt with simply by hard-clipping the waveform, which produces that characteristic squelched sawtooth sound. This primitive and genius concept makes the GR-300 still unmatched in playing response to this very day. There is literally no latency at all. The drawback is that you are basically stuck with one sound -the GR-300 sound so to speak- which nowadays is more or less owned by Mr. Patrick Bruce Metheny. Laughing

Hard-synching an oscillator to an audio source is laughably simple -just patch the audio source into the sync input. In fact, that's exactly what the Moogerfooger FreqBox pedal does, although it adds FM for extra sonic manipulation. However, the FreqBox is only monophonic. The GR guitar synthesizers had pickups for each string. Also, if you want accurate pitch tracking, this simplistic method will not always work, as harmonics will often produce extra zero-crossings in the waveform, resulting in discrete pitch jumps of the driven oscillator . The GR-300 had an extra circuitry to filter out harmonics and ensure that the fundamental frequency is dominant.

cheers,
t

_________________
beer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1017
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 6
G2 patch files: 211

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Addendum: It just came to mind that the G2 has only 4 audio inputs, so using a hexa-pickup will not completely work.
In terms of pitch-detection on the G2, I (involuntarily) have become somewhat of an expert in this field, having tried out many approaches, of which almost all have failed somewhat Laughing.

The best solution I've ever hit upon uses the stock G2 pitch-detection module with some extra circuitry to help differentiate between periodic and aperiodic signals, in order to combat those annoying blips and glitches that occur when the pitch-detector tries to latch on to chaotic transitions.

To be found here:
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-52784.html

_________________
beer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antimon



Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3618
Location: Sweden
Audio files: 254
G2 patch files: 95

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of the first things I tried when I got my Nord Modular (the old one) was hook up a guitar to the sync input of an oscillator and then use an envelope follower to amplify. Simple mayhem and fun! Smile
_________________
Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
phoofk



Joined: Feb 05, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: montreal

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry ha -
I am using a guitar that has a GK pickup, then a GK to MIDI converter that is USB. from there I send MIDI to the G2 (yes i forgot to mention, i do indeed own one and am attempting to apply this knowledge gained TO it.)

so really the question is not about guitar related anything, but rather, what is the architecture of the roland synthesizer that was used to playback data gleaned from shitty HEX pickups in the 70s/80s.

clearer?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
phoofk



Joined: Feb 05, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: montreal

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry, i really wasted your time eh Tim? huge response, huge effort. so touching. but alas, yes, the tracking/pickup/guitar part of the formula is taken care of.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1017
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 6
G2 patch files: 211

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phoofk wrote:
sorry, i really wasted your time eh Tim? huge response, huge effort. so touching. but alas, yes, the tracking/pickup/guitar part of the formula is taken care of.

Easy mate, no need to get emotional Laughing. You asked about the GR-300, I answered -that's all. Wink Huge effort -no. I type fast, and it was actually nice to revisit and rethink some older patches over dinner. Pitch-tracking is a fun subject.

_________________
beer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GovernorSilver



Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 1284
Location: Washington DC Metro
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Kleinert wrote:
Addendum: It just came to mind that the G2 has only 4 audio inputs, so using a hexa-pickup will not completely work.
In terms of pitch-detection on the G2, I (involuntarily) have become somewhat of an expert in this field, having tried out many approaches, of which almost all have failed somewhat Laughing.

The best solution I've ever hit upon uses the stock G2 pitch-detection module with some extra circuitry to help differentiate between periodic and aperiodic signals, in order to combat those annoying blips and glitches that occur when the pitch-detector tries to latch on to chaotic transitions.

To be found here:
http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-52784.html


Hail the Master

I'm quite satisfied with the modeled GR-300 inside my Roland VG-99 - very easy to get those Pat Metheny/Robert Fripp GR-300 lead tones and Andy Summers chordal washes.

However, I'm going to try your patch with my viola.

_________________
Current and recent work on Soundcloud

Some old stuff on VIRB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 1 [9 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
emSynth

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use