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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Developers' Corner
CS-80 style VCO
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elektrouwe



Joined: May 27, 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: CS-80 style VCO Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here is a schematic for a CS-80 style VCO. It is only a LTSPICE simulation until now. A guy asked for help on a german forum ( http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=78218 ) and I found it interesting to help him, because Yamaha used a closed loop VCO in their Chip. Although closed loop VCOs typically have better linearity than our "bread & butter discharge cap. with switch"-VCOs they are not popular in music electronics, because the rising ramp has a slope with fixed rise time and the amplitude is not constant over CV-range.
Rise time at low freq. does not play a role, but for frequencies in the kHz range , waveform changes towards an asymmetrical triangle. I guess that is the reason why Yamaha added a waveform shaper that simply masks the rising slope with a constant amplitude "punch" from the closed loop one-shot.
the short (30us ?) punch does not add audible harmonic content and, I guess again, is "grinded" away in the (bandwidth limited) signal path.
Please comment


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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have nothing to add here, only that im glad someone finally picked this up. Will follow with interest!
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keyman2



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: CS-80 style VCO Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks deceptively simple...What would be required to make this a 'practical circuit' in terms of compensation for temperature or other variations which might alter tuning/performance?

elektrouwe wrote:
here is a schematic for a CS-80 style VCO. It is only a LTSPICE simulation until now. A guy asked for help on a german forum ( http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=78218 ) and I found it interesting to help him, because Yamaha used a closed loop VCO in their Chip. Although closed loop VCOs typically have better linearity than our "bread & butter discharge cap. with switch"-VCOs they are not popular in music electronics, because the rising ramp has a slope with fixed rise time and the amplitude is not constant over CV-range.
Rise time at low freq. does not play a role, but for frequencies in the kHz range , waveform changes towards an asymmetrical triangle. I guess that is the reason why Yamaha added a waveform shaper that simply masks the rising slope with a constant amplitude "punch" from the closed loop one-shot.
the short (30us ?) punch does not add audible harmonic content and, I guess again, is "grinded" away in the (bandwidth limited) signal path.
Please comment
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itist



Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Soundclip Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

if you want to listen to the VCO from elektrouwe i was the guy who asked for.
Here is a link to a short youtube Sound clip.

Here you can here it without Filter with my SPI Based 12Bit MIDI to Voltage converter.It sucks in the low frequecies but this is an issue of the converter. The VCO is stable.

http://youtu.be/k6iqJHWC2OY



http://youtu.be/N1N52uKgiHo

Its the CS Style VCO thru a 24 db Transistor ladder Filter.


Here you can here the VCO with a discrete DAC and its fine over the whole keyboard range.

http://youtu.be/uGv4gvDUYMU

I am searching for an VCO schematic collection espacially linear VCO

if someone has ideas or want me to do some measurements feel free..



Greetz


Oliver


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keyman2



Joined: Jul 16, 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Soundclip Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The ladder example sounds very saturated?

itist wrote:
Hi,

if you want to listen to the VCO from elektrouwe i was the guy who asked for.
Here is a link to a short youtube Sound clip.

Here you can here it without Filter with my SPI Based 12Bit MIDI to Voltage converter.It sucks in the low frequecies but this is an issue of the converter. The VCO is stable.

http://youtu.be/k6iqJHWC2OY



http://youtu.be/N1N52uKgiHo

Its the CS Style VCO thru a 24 db Transistor ladder Filter.


Here you can here the VCO with a discrete DAC and its fine over the whole keyboard range.

http://youtu.be/uGv4gvDUYMU

I am searching for an VCO schematic collection espacially linear VCO

if someone has ideas or want me to do some measurements feel free..



Greetz


Oliver


http://www.youtube.com/user/DerITist
https://plus.google.com/+ItistDe
http://www.ititst.de
https://www.facebook.com/deriTist
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itist



Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Soundclip Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

keyman2 wrote:
The ladder example sounds very saturated?


Hi,

Maybe there is a problem with the matching i will check.

I am not sure with the vibrato implementation. In the low frequencies the depth will be much greater then in the hicher frequencies. Same with the (linear) Detune.

Is it possible to {de) tune one vco of a CS Synth in thirds over the hole Keyboard?

Greetz

Oliver

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itist



Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: made some new Measurements Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

i think one of Videos is not the CS Style VCO.

Today i have made some new measurements above the range of
125mV to 8 V in octave steps.

The voltage source is not my DAC to eliminate errors in the Voltage steps.

Voltage Frequency red Frequency yellow
0.125V 56.5Hz 56Hz
0.250V 112.5Hz 112Hz
0.5V 223.2Hz 223Hz
1V 439.9Hz 443Hz
2V 874.1Hz 874Hz
4V 1696Hz 1701Hz
8V 3226Hz 3231Hz

Measured with the Oscilloscop!!

all above 3v sounds detuned.


See Update!!



The circuit was powered wirh an standard linear Power supply no Lab supply.

Greetz

Oliver


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itist



Joined: Dec 30, 2013
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: OpAmp changed!! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After Uwe, the developer of the VCO, wrote me an e-mail where he asked me about the used OpAmp, i wrote him that i used an OP07 (bipolar), he told me to use jfet type. So I changed it to a LF356.

Here the results:

CV F
0.125V 49.8Hz
0.250V 99.01Hz
0.5V 197.4Hz
1V 393.8Hz
2V 784.9Hz
4V 1520Hz
8V 3140Hz

I think this is very linear.

I did a simple temperature check (hair dryer)

15C° 1000Hz
20C° 999Hz
30C° 993Hz
40C° 984Hz
46C° 977Hz

The circuit was build with standard metalfilm resitors with +- 50 ppm

Thank you Uwe.

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itist



Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Soundemo Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

Audio Demo CS Style VCO. Recorded direct to Soundcard no filters, no effects.



http://youtu.be/WoIxa03C_yE


The developer Uwe told me to check the used OpAmp. I used an bipolar instead of a Fet OpAmp
I changed the OpAmp from an OP07 to an LF 356 and the tracking Problems are gone...

Thanks Uwe.

Greetz
Oliver





http://itist.de/2013/10/cs-style-vco-core/

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Yipdeceiver



Joined: Apr 07, 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Athens GA

PostPosted: Yesterday, at 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would love to make a +/- 12v version of this for my modular. What would I have to change to run this on +/-12v?
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elektrouwe



Joined: May 27, 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Yesterday, at 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="Yipdeceiver"What would I have to change to run this on +/-12v?[/quote]
It will run @+-12V without problems, but a V/Hz slope change (mostly) from Iref = -V/R9 will happen.
R9 can be changed to a 12/15 lower value to get (almost) the same V/Hz slope as with +-15V.
It might be a good idea anyway to add a trimpot in series to R9 to compensate for other component tolerances.
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