Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:19 am Post subject:
Quote:
The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
Just because a plant has no voice, nor a structure that humans would call a brain does not mean that plants do not suffer being cut, shredded, pureed and chewed.
It is possible that while we boil our carrots and potatoes they are screaming. Or worse yet - when we eat them alive. _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat?corruptio optimi pessima
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject:
That is ridiculous as well as false. Just the other day God's dog, Desdemona, and I were talking about the very thing and she assures me veggies feel no pain. So that's that for that.
And BTW Ciacco informs me that there is a special little restaurant in the third circle just for eaters of pork where you have to eat six times a day for all eternity. It's much like this except there's no eggs, bacon or sausage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
Audio files: 5
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:13 pm Post subject:
DrJustice wrote:
Hey, bachus is in da house!
It took the power of bacon to compel him to post!
I hope you're good, bachus. Say hi to Boog.
BTW, no smilies there, so I take it you eat no meat and are being very serious(?) Then again, there's some Monthy Python there...
I think it is true that humans have evolved as omnivores so it's hard to deny a human's genetic/biologic right to eat meat. So, like cannibalism, it is a mater of what one makes of their own normative ethics. I haven't the slightest urge to run into MacDonalds and spoil others' lunches by ranting about how McRibs is worse than just a culinary atrocity.
It is a matter of enlightenment. Does one want to be a more enlightened being that perceives and responds to the pain its choices inflict on the world as a whole, or does one want that luscious BLT or that magnificent beckoning slice of pepperoni and portabello pizza? That is a tough choice when one's ethical roots are grown in the normative ethics of popular Western cultural. In truth, if it weren't for turkey pepperoni I'm not sure what I would do. But I do know at the deepest level of my being that the factory farming of swine is morally and ethically wrong. Yet I've been in chicken houses and still I eat foul. I justify it to my self as choosing a lesser of two evils just as many others do by eschewing cannibalism or for others by not eating dogs, etc.. So it's not neither is it . It is to raise the issue. To make one
And greetings Dr.J _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
Audio files: 5
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:42 am Post subject:
JovianPyx wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion, ethics and moral codes.
I am entitled to mine..
It wouldn't occur to me to deny that.
Quote:
Bacon tastes good.
I'm told the same is true of human flesh. _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
Audio files: 5
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:18 am Post subject:
PHOBoS wrote:
mmm long pig.
Yes he is. Lots of good bacon there. Poor old thing has gotten so arthritic I haven't been able to get him up this AM. We may have to put him down this coming week if his anti-inflammatories don't perk him up. If you come pick up the body you can have it for your freezer. _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
...So it's not neither is it . It is to raise the issue. To make one
Right. And right you are. I also subscribe to your signature quote. I love and respect animals, and yet I eat them...
As you say the human omnivore and ethics (an invention of humans) do pose a conflict; I want both enlightenment and that luscious BLT, and I admit that I haven't evolved to a stage where I'm able to sort it all out and arrive at the "cosmological truth" in this matter. Neither do I believe anyone else has. Be it fowl or pork, there are strict regulations on how to keep them and slaughter them, specifically to avoid or minimize suffering. Whether these are sufficient and makes eating meat justifiable is another discussion, but us humans aren't completely oblivious of the dilemma.
I hear that the Chinese eat cats. I have cats. The thought of eating one is repulsive to me. You eat fowl, but are repulsed at the though of eating pork. Where does that leave us? We are some f****d up animals, perhaps we might as well eat each other and be done with it
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:16 am Post subject:
Whatever else we are, we are animals that have decided on a certain level of tolerance of the diversity of opinion and thought.
I too have respect of all living things, but I also recognize that life is a cycle that does in fact include death. Some life forms die so that others can live.
You think turkey sausage tastes good (so do I actually).
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
Audio files: 5
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:45 am Post subject:
DrJustice wrote:
[P.S. How's the Zylaphone situation?
I have been putting in ~10 hours a day on it during the winters. But Aubrey
died in January and this year and I stopped work on Feb 25 because we got a puppy that day
and his socialization and training are full time occupation for the next couple of months as I am working with him in the hope he can be a service dog for me as my own arthritis continues to worsen.
When he requires less time I hope to get back to Zylaphon (before next winter). _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
I'm sorry to hear about Aubrey and also Boog's condition. Good to hear that you have a new companion though. In this context I found that last picture beautifully melancholic.
I lost Rosso the cat last year. These things hit me harder as I get older - I thought it was supposed to be the other way around...
As for Zylaphone, take your time. Perhaps we'll see an update in the forum soon? I like reading about it
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
Audio files: 5
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:07 am Post subject:
Well, no one ever said compassion and enlightenment came easily. _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
Joined: Feb 29, 2004 Posts: 2922 Location: Up in that tree over there.
Audio files: 5
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:33 am Post subject:
JovianPyx wrote:
All of this is just making me more hungry for BACON.
YUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ! ! ! !
You'll just have to go the butcher. Boog, I'm delighted to report, made it out to his pasture this morning for the first time in three days, so he's not available. _________________ The question is not whether they can talk or reason, but whether they can suffer. -- Jeremy Bentham
Joined: Nov 20, 2007 Posts: 1988 Location: West Red Spot, Jupiter
Audio files: 224
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:40 am Post subject:
It's OK, I've got plenty of bacon right here. I've got crumbles and I've got pea meal bacon. Oh and chorizo too! _________________ FPGA, dsPIC and Fatman Synth Stuff
Time flies like a banana. Fruit flies when you're having fun. BTW, Do these genes make my ass look fat?corruptio optimi pessima
Joined: Jul 07, 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 89
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:57 am Post subject:
Beautiful dogs, Robert, sorry to hear about Aubrey. Linda was thrilled when I showed her the pix. Just got back from walking our two Shepherds & a Beagle in the falling snow for our daily 3 miles, about 2 inches of the stuff on the ground. Makes them frolic. Strange seasons, more snow in March than in January here, although only enough for a couple days of cross-country skiing in February. Have fun with your puppy! _________________ When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks.
Each to their own. I generally don't discuss vegetarianism or veganism much. It's often quite some time before an acquaintance will become aware of it and act surprised.
Yes, I did eat animals once upon a time, and if I were to hazard a guess the last thing I ate may have been a bacon sandwich! I stopped at age 13 when I saw a TV show revealing the truth of meat production. My Dad thought it was a fad. He told me if I didn't eat meat I wouldn't get hairs on my chest. Guess what Dad? I got the hairs when I STOPPED (and they grew in other places too! ).
So now I'm almost 47 and haven't eaten meat since then. And staying on topic, my two boys 12 and 21 have never eaten bacon! There has to be a lot less suffering taking this path. My Sister and Mother followed and are vegetarians. My Dad still enjoys the bacon, even though his hair has gone grey.
So the moral of this story is we can convince ourselves of anything. And yes, it works both ways.
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