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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Tap-Tempo for DIN-Sync?
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moosapotamus



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 96
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Tap-Tempo for DIN-Sync? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a number of commercial devices (sequencers, drum machines, etc.) with Sync inputs and having tap-tempo would really open up the possibilities for utilizing them in live band situations. But I haven't been able to find anything that is designed to to this, DIY or otherwise.

For this application, I'm not really interested in a swiss-army knife module with all sorts of other modulation capabilities. A simple foot pedal with a cable that plugs into the DIN Sync would be awesome.

Does anyone know of anything like this?

If not commercially available, I'd love to build my own. Shouldn't be too tough, right?

For the tap-tempo part, I'm thinking that the Molten Voltage / PedalSync MV-52B would be a good candidate. Are there any other/better alternatives out there?

Then comes the hard part (for me, anyway)... the DIN Sync stuff. I've found a few things on the web, but nothing that I can figure out how to adapt to this specific tap-tempo application.

The DIN Sync seems to require a 0-5V clock pulse for the timing, yes/no? I'm thinking that the MV-52B will handle that.

Then there are the other pins on the DIN connector for Run/Stop/Continue. Anyone know what needs to be sent to them for this to work?

Any other info, ideas, links, suggestions?

Thanks!
~ Charlie

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frequencycentral



Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 186
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Charlie, this should point you in the right direction:

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=roland+sync&t=53205

http://fa.utfs.org/diy/a100/sync2clock/index.html

http://www.dinsync.info/2010/02/roland-tr-606-service-manual.html

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moosapotamus



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cheers, Rick! Thanks for the breadcrumbs! Just took a quick look and those links look very helpful.

I guess I'm still thinking that the molten voltage stuff is the most straightforward way to get a tap-tempo clock signal. Anyone know of any alternatives?

Then a +5v gate signal for the run/stop shouldn't be too hard to come up with.

I think the next challenge is going to be figuring out how to do some multiplication/division to properly scale the ppqn of the clock output. Any more breadcrumbs for that piece?

Thanks!
~ Charlie

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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mr Moose - the easiest way to get a practical division from 24ppqn, is with a 4017 divider IC. One of the Q2 - Q9 outputs when wired back to the reset pin via series diode will give a Divided output on Q1.

Two of the Q2- Q9 outputs will give 1/16 and 1/32 respectively, and the others give odder divisions, althought there are a useful pair of outputs for triplets divisions.

Connect Q1 to a 4024 divider and you get further divisions, all simultaneously.

Page 19 of THIS DOC shows the first 4017 wired up as described. The stuff to the right of that can be ignored and are an OR gate for patterns, and some gate and trigger conditioning circuitry, followed by a series of x1 or x2 gain output buffers.

Transitor buffers would be just as good on the output.
The CGS site has all sorts of useful stuff in there for output buffers and so on. Check it out.

Hope this helps - have fun!

cheers,
Dave

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moosapotamus



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the info Dave. The M2C looks really sweet.

If I go with the MV-52B tap tempo chip that I linked to, above, that will put out a pulse signal in ratios of 4:1, 2:1, 1:1, 1:2 and 1:4, all relative to what can be tapped on a momentary switch connected to the chip's input pin.

In that case, if I'm not mistaken, I will need to multiply up to 24 ppqn, as opposed to dividing down from 24 ppqn.

So, wouldn't I need a multiplier instead of a divider? Or am I not thinking about that the right way?

Thanks
~ Charlie

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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Charlie.

I guess I didn't read the OP properly. Sorry! 'Embarassed'

You're right of course - Frequency multiplication is what you'll need.
There is some useful info HERE
Scroll down to Jovian Pyx's posts.
Some ideas for a solution there perhaps with a 4046 + freq multiplier inside its feedback loop?

Commercially, the Kahler Human Clock did what I*think* you're after, but with MIDI.

Hope that helps! Smile

Good luck with it, and keep us posted.

chers,
Dave

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moosapotamus



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No worries. It's all good stuff. Cool

I think I might have stumbled on that thread while searching the forum. I'll have a closer look/read. Thanks!

Never heard of the Kahler before. Looks interesting.

I'm starting to think that it might be easier to just build a sequencer with a built-in tap-tempo than to figure out how to make a tap-tempo DIN-Sync device. But I'm not giving up yet - still on the prowl. Twisted Evil

Thanks!
~ Charlie

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LFLab



Joined: Dec 17, 2009
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Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Should not be all that hard to do in an arduino, so it might make sense to check out the arduino.cc website to see if there are software building blocks available which you can use (or maybe a complete project, you can always hope).
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moosapotamus



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're probably right. Most any microcontroller would do the trick, if I was a programming whiz. That MV-52B chip that I linked to just needs an appropriate multiplier routine and gate signal output.

I've wanted to learn uC programming for a while. Should maybe cut my teeth on something a little easier, tho.

~ Charlie

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