electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
[Closed] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus, v-un-v
Page 1 of 1 [18 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
NV



Joined: Oct 05, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Pacific Northwest

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: [Closed] Eurorack Klee Panel and Daughterboard Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

------------------- This order is closed as of 4-21 -------------------
---------- Please see the Muff Wiggler thread (link below) for up-to-date information ----------


The Klee is one of the most unique and inspiring sequencers in existence. Obtaining one, however, is a dark path - a trial by fire paved with the corpses of 140 flying wires and slick with the blood of 135 ground points. There's also the unfortunate side effect of hearing the lamenting wails of dozens of feet of sacrificial wire insulation echoing throughout the cabinet in which you've placed any hand-wired Klee. This gets loud on weekends.

But today we rejoice, for no longer shall we suffer the plague of a single swapped wire or stare down the lone forgotten ground point buried beneath a swarm of spaghetti.

This is an order thread for a Eurorack format Klee front panel, accompanying daughterboard, and panel component kit. The front panel is a 56HP milled and anodized panel matched to a daughterboard to which every panel component is soldered. The daughterboard mates with the electro-music Klee PCBs via SIL pins and headers, allowing the Klee boards to plug directly into the daughterboard. The exceptions are the board interconnection cables and three additional cables running to headers on the daughterboard, but fortunately for those of us with the MTA handtool permanently imprinted into our palm these cables are already prepared and included with the boards. This means not a single cable to build or wire to run for one of the most wiring intensive projects in SDIY.

To place things into perspective, after completing the main analogue/digital Klee boards it took me more than a week of working several hours each day to hand-wire a 5U Klee. When I built up this kit it took me 3 hours.

The daughterboard is secured to the front panel via the numerous panel components, allowing the use of illuminated sliders for the programming pots. The boards make a secure fit with the headers alone, but two additional mounting points are provided for threaded standoffs on each board to make sure everything stays put. As a result of the SIL header integration between the Klee boards and the daughterboard, the total depth of a completed module comes in at 48mm - shallow enough for most Goike skiffs.

This iteration of the Klee accommodates all of the optional features listed in the Klee documentation, as well as a handful of additional modifications listed below:
  • LED driver indicating the input of the external range function.
  • Normaled random voltage to allow for use as a persistent load on/off switch in the absence of an external input.
  • Internal system clock normalization option via a header connected to the switching lead of the clock input jack (expected number of people utilizing this: 0)
Included with the panel and daughterboard is a panel component kit consisting of everything you'll mount onto the daughterboards except for the LEDs, pushbuttons, and knobs - these were left out to allow for customization on the builder's end. The knob dials come in at 17mm, 21mm, and 24mm diameters, and the pushbuttons come in 4 different colors - red, green, yellow, and black. The panel is drilled for standard 3mm T1 LEDs.

The sliders are a custom variant of the Alpha LED slider - custom in that the lever is a longer 20mm and the center detent is eliminated. The LEDs on these sliders come as green but they can easily be swapped for any LED equal to or less than 3.2mm wide - nearly any standard T1 3mm LED will fit, and a dab of glue will secure any that don't. Additionally the slider LEDs can be set as either constantly on or synchronized with the bit LEDs above. The switches are of the flatted variety, which are as satisfying to flip as a miniature switch can get. The jacks are the same stereo switching jacks from my prior group buy and are in my opinion the highest quality jacks currently in euro. The pots are 12mm Alphas, the rotary is PCB mounted with a smooth action, and the wire is imbued with unicorn hair. In short, these are all quality parts to which the board and panel have been tailor fitted.

Additionally the kit includes all of the SIL sockets, pin headers, MTA headers, and mounting hardware needed to integrate the daughterboard with the main boards, as well as pre-built cables for the few remaining MTA headers and for connecting to a Eurorack power busboard.

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....

Panel/Daughterboard Kit Pricing:

Here is a Mouser BOM for the components I will be including in the kits (excluding wire) - the equivalent versions of the custom sliders and switches are featured, although obviously not in the custom dimensions. As of posting this the Mouser BOM comes in at just over $250. Since I purchased these parts in bulk the kits will be $200 - a $50 savings. The Panel and PCB combo will be $95. Note however that this is a package deal - the PCB, panel, and kit are all included in one go. I don't have any panels or PCBs without the kit as well.

Altogether the total price for the panel, daughterboard, and component kit will be $295 plus shipping.


Ordering:

Shipping will be via USPS Priority for both domestic and international. These are the cheapest options I found - the package is 14" wide and over the First Class weight limit. Charges will vary by country under the following terms:

USA - $17
Canada - $38
Anywhere else - $48

Shipping for more than one kit will be individually calculated by location.

(This order is currently closed with the above information kept for posterity)

If you're interested in purchasing a kit send an email to timgoslin at gmail dot com with the subject "Klee Order" expressing the following:
  • PayPal email address
  • Country to be shipped to
  • Quantity of kits desired
  • Forum name and origin (E-M or Muff's)
I will send a PayPal invoice to the address you provide. Make sure your PayPal shipping address is the address you wish the kit to be shipped to since that's the one that will show up on the label. Please use email only for your order and use this thread or PMs for questions to help me keep things organized. I'll reserve kits as they come and will send invoices out in groups - the list below will be updated each time that happens. If I've sent an invoice and haven't had any payment or communication for a week I'll have to cancel it and put the kit back up for grabs. I'll send plenty of warnings before I cancel anything, but please communicate with me so I don't have to be a jerk about any of this. If you have a special circumstance PM me and we'll work something out.

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....

In the meantime you will still need the main Klee boards as well as the components which will be soldered onto those boards. Note that this kit does not include the primary analogue/digital Klee boards. These are available at the electro-music.com store as they always have been. Here is a link - buy the boards and support the site!

And to make things even easier, the illustrious Synthcube has used his talents to create a main Klee board component kit tailored to this project - check out his order page here. His kit is customized to work with Eurorack power and gate specifications so you won't need to play around with getting the tolerances right. Amazingly it also includes all of the parts necessary for 15V operation as well if needed. And if all that wasn't reason enough his kit comes in about $20 cheaper than buying the parts on their own. Hell yes.

This project was pursued from the beginning with the blessings of Scott Stites and Andrew Sharp, two brilliant and dedicated people who deserve all the praise they can get for everything they've done to make the Klee what it is. Go tell them how cool they are. An additional thank you goes to goiks for inspiration with his prior work of cramming a Klee into Euro - buy his cases dammit.

Feel free to ask any questions in this thread. An illustrated PDF build manual for the daughterboard kit is included as an attachment in the Muff Wiggler thread. If you have any trouble building up the daughterboard I will do whatever I can to help, but please note that beyond the panel/daughterboard I'm not guaranteeing support for the main analogue/digital Klee boards. The Klee build documentation is amazingly extensive and if you have trouble I will pitch in advice and tips wherever I can, but I'm no Scott Stites - I just stalk him.

If you like your Klees fast and freaky, sleazy in silver, lit up like royalty, and with the body of a 48mm board, you will like this project.


---------------------------------------------

This is a cross-post with a thread in the Muff Wiggler DIY forum. I will of course be monitoring both threads, but here is the link to the thread on Muff's to make sure everyone has access to any information that may come up in either location.


Klee 4.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  213.23 KB
 Viewed:  98 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Klee 4.jpg



Klee 3.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  294.94 KB
 Viewed:  96 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Klee 3.jpg



Klee 2.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  395.74 KB
 Viewed:  89 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Klee 2.jpg



Klee 1.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  257.38 KB
 Viewed:  250 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Klee 1.jpg



Last edited by NV on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:33 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scott Stites
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 4121
Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This...is FREAKING AWESOME!
_________________
My Site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20524
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 147
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Too easy, can't be a klee Shocked Laughing

sorry

it looks great I mean, lots easier to construct and nicely compact too, good job!

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mongo1



Joined: Aug 11, 2011
Posts: 411
Location: Raleigh NC

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow - Finally something that makes me wish I had a Euro system.

If you ever make one of these for 5U, I think you'll sell a ton of em.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1473
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm speechless. I want that but I don't have euro!


Hm. But wait! I do have a rack that has spacing I was thinking that I could mount Euro things into. Can I get an exact measurement of the internal top-to-bottom height necessary for clearance?

I grok that Synthcube's kit covers 15V operation for the Klee boards themselves, but will your stuff also operate at 15V?


Edit: and can it be modified to use 1/4" jacks? I have drill press, step drills, and sufficient brains, the question would be whether there would be a depth problem with larger jacks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Paradigm X



Joined: Feb 15, 2011
Posts: 276
Location: Null and void

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

+1 for a 5u/rackmount version...

Ideally with bigger sliders too.

the wiring terrifies me tbph... but ive got the pcbs waiting to go.

Looks awesome tho...

Im deeply jealous.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sneakthief



Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's no way that can take 1/4" jacks.

Re. 15v: the original was designed for 15v so just do some part-substitutions using the original BOM.

_________________
Sneak-Thief - raw electrofunk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1473
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not concerned about the original, just not clear on what needs voltage in the daughterboard that's new.... The LEDs for example, which ought to be easy enough to adjust for, but what else?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jksuperstar



Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 2485
Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 18

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ooh, a perfect reason to finish my Klee after so long. Do the sockets you use connecting to the Klee boards mate to the default connectors on the Klee? I've made my Klee boards, but not the front panel, which you've done an incredible job of! So since the default connectors are there already, these should just snap in, correct?

[ignore this post...I'm on a mobile drive and now zoomed in to see what you've done, so I'd have to remove the sockets...no biggie. I am more curious about 15v since I use Frac with 15v natively.]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NV



Joined: Oct 05, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Pacific Northwest

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Can I get an exact measurement of the internal top-to-bottom height necessary for clearance?

elmegil wrote:

Edit: and can it be modified to use 1/4" jacks? I have drill press, step drills, and sufficient brains, the question would be whether there would be a depth problem with larger jacks.


The panel measurements are 284.15mm x 128.4mm. The daughterboard PCB measures 111mm x 284mm once assembled (the thin top board is initially attached via an easily separated v-score).

The depth from the panel to the PCB is 14mm when built in the "shallow" way, with a max of about 18mm if you don't use the 3.5mm jacks and really push the switches out to the end of their pins and threads. However, the space allowed horizontally for each jack is 11.25mm. In other words, a bit too tight for 1/4".

However, all of the jacks are mounted along the bottom and use large pads that can easily fit up to an 18awg wire. In theory you could build another 1U panel beneath it to mount all your 1/4" jacks and run some wires. The silk screening for each jack footprint is clearly labeled so it should be easy to figure out what goes where.


elmegil wrote:

I grok that Synthcube's kit covers 15V operation for the Klee boards themselves, but will your stuff also operate at 15V?


Everything in the kit will operate just fine on 15V operation. The only thing you may want to change will be the 4.7k resistors for the slider LEDs - these were chosen to match with the 4.7k LED resistors that would be used on the main analogue/digital Klee boards for 12V operation. For 15V operation 6.8k is a better idea on the main boards, so change the slider resistors to 6.8k and everything should be fine. If you're going with the option to have the sliders lit in unison with the bit LEDs then a jumper is used instead of a resistor - unless you're using crazy LEDs. This will be covered in the build manual which I'm currently working on and will have up before the kits begin to ship.

The kit includes a 1k resistor which determines the maximum brightness for the external range LED indicator. I went with 1k on this because it allows a much wider range of brightness to more accurately indicate the voltage. The LED will last just as long with 1k at 15V, but if you want a perfect brightness match you could go with another 4.7k or 6.8k in that place.

Other than that the kit has a header for euro operation (10-pin IDC ribbon) but there's plenty of space around the pads to attach some wires to run to any header you prefer.

The analogue/digital Klee boards will need to be built for 15V operation as well, which just means using the proper resistors in the LED and Gate sections.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



jksuperstar wrote:
[ignore this post...I'm on a mobile drive and now zoomed in to see what you've done, so I'd have to remove the sockets...no biggie. I am more curious about 15v since I use Frac with 15v natively.]


I had to remove the MTA headers on my original build as well. Here's my technique so you can benefit from the agony I went through:

  • Don't try to remove the entire header at once - do one pin at a time
  • Grip the pin you're removing on the component side with some needle nose pliers
  • Heat up the joint on the solder side with your iron
  • Pull the pin through with the pliers - it should slide right out of the MTA plastic with just a little effort
  • Repeat for all the pins of that header
  • Put the board on its side, heat up the solder still left in the joint, and use a solder sucker on the other side to suck it out

Once I figured out the pin-at-a-time technique it didn't take long for me to remove all the headers necessary. I spent like a half hour removing ONE header before figuring that out. Be sure that you know which headers remain as headers and not pins - these are...

Analogue board: J2, J4, J9, J11

Digital board: J1, J3, J6, J7, J10

The kits include MTA headers for these positions, so if you accidentally remove one don't worry about it.

The 15V information is posted above in response to elmegil.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1473
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great, thank you for the detailed info Smile

I have 4 1/2" between rails on the back side, so I definitely could fit this there.

The rack in question is essentially two sided, so I realized at one point (and remembered again after I asked) that I could create pass-through mults that were 1/8" on the Euro side and 1/4" on the MOTM side. Probably not remotely optimal for any kind of performance, but then that's not what I'm doing right now.

It wouldn't be terribly convenient to be running patch cables around the sides of the rack anyway.

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4759
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Beautiful work NV! Very Happy
Isn't it wonderful what people can achieve as a team?
You are most certainly a member of the Klee design family in my book!
Much admiration and respect to you.

Andrew

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NV



Joined: Oct 05, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Pacific Northwest

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The remaining Klee kits were claimed overnight. I've updated the Orders post in the Muff Wiggler thread with a list of everyone who managed to claim a kit. I've started sending invoices and will update the list to reflect that as I get them out.

Any further orders will be placed on a pre-order list. I will not be sending any invoices nor taking any money for that list until the order is set in stone - as of now it is just an expression of interest. However, please only voice your interest if you feel comfortable committing to the purchase.

For the pre-order list the procedure is the same - send an email to the address noted in the original post with all of the information listed. Please note that I will only be registering names that send the information via email - if you voice interest in the thread or PM but not via the instructions for emailing your name won't be added to the list. This is the only way for me to reliably keep track of everything.

As of now additional interest has been expressed for 3 kits. If the total expressed interest can hit 60 kits or more then I will start another run. I'm adding a list of pre-orders underneath the current order list which I'll be keeping up to date.

In the meantime the current orders should be shipping in about 3-4 weeks, depending on when the PCBs arrive. As soon as they come in the door the kits will be heading out. I'll of course be keeping everyone up to date on whatever information I get on their arrival.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17611
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 125
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yikes, this is splendid. Unfortunately, there is a problem. I suddenly got a flood of orders for the Klee board sets. There aren't nearly enough of them in stock at the moment. I'll get organized and send out notices to everyone who has ordered. I'll order some more boards from the supplier and get everyone their's ASAP.

We will coordinate better with Tim in the future.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I'm sure this will be so good that it'll be worth the wait.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Rigo



Joined: Mar 12, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Yikes, this is splendid. Unfortunately, there is a problem. I suddenly got a flood of orders for the Klee board sets. There aren't nearly enough of them in stock at the moment. I'll get organized and send out notices to everyone who has ordered. I'll order some more boards from the supplier and get everyone their's ASAP.

We will coordinate better with Tim in the future.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I'm sure this will be so good that it'll be worth the wait.

So I was fast enough not having to wait for the pcbs Very Happy Now I must only wait for the panel kit and the component kit Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NV



Joined: Oct 05, 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Pacific Northwest

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just as a heads up - the thread on the Muff Wiggler forum is being kept up to date with questions, status, and order/build information, including a build manual for the daughterboard. Here is a link to the thread. Nearly every order/question I've received has been via that thread so naturally it contains the most information.

The ordering period for the second run of kits will be closing on April 21st after which I'm not expecting enough demand to pursue another run for quite some time, possibly if ever. Anyone with any questions at all please feel free to message or email me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
State Machine
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 2744
Location: New York
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Got mine ordered in time !!!! Awesome ! This is perfect timing. I wrote Tim letting him know that I just started building a new modular in "Euro" format so this will be a nice version of the Klee for it. Well done !

Bill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
State Machine
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 2744
Location: New York
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I took the time this holiday to build my Euro Klee ! Tim did a fantastic job on the build manual and everything went together perfectly. The illustrations and step by step instructions are top notch ! The trickiest part of the build was the daughter board alignment with the front panel and all the panel components. With patience and careful handling though, the job will get done successfully Cool

I do recommend that all the panel components be checked before installing them since it will be a big job to replace them if you find one or two bad after the build. The completed module has a bit of mass and weighs in at 2 lb, 1 oz (.94 KG).

This Euro Klee sequencer, along with my new Tip Top Audio matrix sequencer (scheduled to arrive at my door this coming Monday), will be a nice addition to my Euro style synthesizer project.

Bill


DSC_0359.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  3.11 MB
 Viewed:  32 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

DSC_0359.JPG



DSC_0364.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  2.42 MB
 Viewed:  26 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

DSC_0364.JPG



DSC_0367.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  2.74 MB
 Viewed:  36 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

DSC_0367.JPG



DSC_0363.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  2.5 MB
 Viewed:  29 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

DSC_0363.JPG


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus, v-un-v
Page 1 of 1 [18 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use