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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » The layout factory
ARP Odyssey MKII/III VCO - Eurorack Format
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AndyR1960



Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 287
Location: Manchester UK
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had a bunch of them made by Futurlec - Very good quality, reasonably priced, but delivery takes forever Rolling Eyes

If I need to build anything that needs a quality PCB, I have to plan months in advance Wink

I'm currently working on upgrading my Odyssey (extra VCO & LFO, Aftertouch and 40235 Dual Filter) so I'll be busy for a while, but I'll keep popping in to see how things are cooking.
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys! Smile
I offer the acrylic engraved panels for 6 EUR each and an aluminum engraved panel for 23 EUR.


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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AndyR1960 wrote:
I had a bunch of them made by Futurlec - Very good quality, reasonably priced, but delivery takes forever Rolling Eyes

If I need to build anything that needs a quality PCB, I have to plan months in advance Wink

I'm currently working on upgrading my Odyssey (extra VCO & LFO, Aftertouch and 40235 Dual Filter) so I'll be busy for a while, but I'll keep popping in to see how things are cooking.


Oh, Futurlec, thats awesome man. Any chance you could share the file needed for a order from them? Or if we could arrange something? I really want more of these VCO's. Very Happy
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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

furio wrote:
Hi guys! Smile
I offer the acrylic engraved panels for 6 EUR each and an aluminum engraved panel for 23 EUR.


How does the aluminium engraved ones look? Is it the black ones on Page 2 of this thread? Wasnt sure if they were alu or acrylic.
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

steffensen wrote:
furio wrote:
Hi guys! Smile
I offer the acrylic engraved panels for 6 EUR each and an aluminum engraved panel for 23 EUR.


How does the aluminium engraved ones look? Is it the black ones on Page 2 of this thread? Wasnt sure if they were alu or acrylic.


It was just to show that you can use 9 and 16 mm pots ...We do those black in Acrylic. The aluminium black ones has not yet arrived! Wink
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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

furio wrote:
steffensen wrote:
furio wrote:
Hi guys! Smile
I offer the acrylic engraved panels for 6 EUR each and an aluminum engraved panel for 23 EUR.


How does the aluminium engraved ones look? Is it the black ones on Page 2 of this thread? Wasnt sure if they were alu or acrylic.


It was just to show that you can use 9 and 16 mm pots ...We do those black in Acrylic. The aluminium black ones has not yet arrived! Wink


Cool, looking forward seeing them.
Any sketch to share until then? Curious on the design. Smile
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it should come out similar to those in acrylic that I posted previously... I just widened the title for security and optimized traces


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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice one. Smile
Not sure about the font for the main label, its pretty hard to see. Looks like its a tight build there, but it is doable. I really need a couple more of these puppies..
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noiselector



Joined: Mar 30, 2013
Posts: 21
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Furio, I want 5 black acrylic panels.
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the aluminum panels are here !! Very Happy


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paulstone



Joined: Apr 14, 2013
Posts: 22
Location: ITA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello guys this is my first post here Smile

interested for 4 pcb and alum. panels if are disponible thx
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Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20626
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 150
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome paulstone & thanks!
_________________
Jan

Last edited by Blue Hell on Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

furio wrote:
the aluminum panels are here !! Very Happy


Looking good man. Smile
How much for these?

Is it a tight squeeze to fit it all in 8HP? Build pic?
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noiselector



Joined: Mar 30, 2013
Posts: 21
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, PCBs are available.Nice looking Furio!!
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paulstone



Joined: Apr 14, 2013
Posts: 22
Location: ITA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
welcome paulstone - could you please freeze your avatar?


hi blue thx for the welcome , yep i will change Smile

ciao
P.
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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

steffensen wrote:
furio wrote:
the aluminum panels are here !! Very Happy


Looking good man. Smile
How much for these?

Is it a tight squeeze to fit it all in 8HP? Build pic?


?
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am so sorry everyone for my delay in answering questions... I have been working for a whole week on testing and checking my PCB... discovering that the CD4011 by NXP did not function with this PCB. The problem has been solved after I bought a ST.

The panel has enough space to mount the alpha 9 or 16 mm pots.


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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry for the delay in reply here too. Smile
Nice looking builds! I thought you had the Ringmod in there as well, hence why i figured it was a tight build. Plenty of room here, great.

Just figured acrylic panels perhaps wouldnt be a bad idea. To avoid the locking between the VCO's especially.
Or - have you guys solved this in any other way?
It gets a bit disturbing at times when you DONT want sync to happen. Smile

furio wrote:
I am so sorry everyone for my delay in answering questions... I have been working for a whole week on testing and checking my PCB... discovering that the CD4011 by NXP did not function with this PCB. The problem has been solved after I bought a ST.

The panel has enough space to mount the alpha 9 or 16 mm pots.
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noiselector



Joined: Mar 30, 2013
Posts: 21
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the info about the CD4011 issue.
I am testing a separate board for waveshaper, ringmod and subosc.
I will share the layout when the testing will be finished.
I have built only one VCO and the only issue I noticed is when I put it in my grounded rack the VCO is detuned.
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello to all,
The BC847BPN improve the sound.
...32bit/96kHz (fm@saw & pwm@pw) test:
http://modular-synth.org/OLDfiles/OddyOSCprova.wav
Please note: in the PDF file I have marked the BC847BPN upside down.
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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

furio wrote:
Hello to all,
The BC847BPN improve the sound.
...32bit/96kHz (fm@saw & pwm@pw) test:
http://modular-synth.org/OLDfiles/OddyOSCprova.wav
Please note: in the PDF file I have marked the BC847BPN upside down.


I breadboarded the VCO some months ago, and tried a bunch of transistors. I fond that the 2N alternatives delivered the american raw ARP sound, while the BC ones made it more in to the realms of round Roland.
So, i wouldnt say it improves the sound, rather gives it a different tone.
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

steffensen wrote:
furio wrote:
Hello to all,
The BC847BPN improve the sound.
...32bit/96kHz (fm@saw & pwm@pw) test:
http://modular-synth.org/OLDfiles/OddyOSCprova.wav
Please note: in the PDF file I have marked the BC847BPN upside down.


I breadboarded the VCO some months ago, and tried a bunch of transistors. I fond that the 2N alternatives delivered the american raw ARP sound, while the BC ones made it more in to the realms of round Roland.
So, i wouldnt say it improves the sound, rather gives it a different tone.


Hi steffensen,
I've noticed a marked improvement of the operation, rather than a difference in tone = the instrument results is more convincing to me.
In theory, the transistors 2N3904 and 2N3906 should be tended to more audiophile sound... I guess it's just a matter of thermal coupling and perhaps a work of this kind one might approach a similar result (photo).

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I tried to make two adapter's with the recommended transistors & better tempcos = after comparing, the VCO with 2N3904/2N3906 expo converter seems to malfunction.
For years I used the dual version PCB by Andy and it was my favorite module... perhaps I would install two BC847BPN's also on them.
The tone changes a lot more by replacing the 2N5910 with a 2N3906... however, for a while I try the VCO with the 2N3906 instead the 2N5910, but I have no intention to replace the 2N5459's.
It disturbs me a lot more to run a celluar phone in standby mode in the studio for the damages arising in tone and operation, than the BC847BPN.
In any case, I like the Andy's idea to separate the dual VCO in individual modules. The single VCO improves drastically in sound and operation.

P.S. unfortunately I just destroyed my natural ADC and I have to fix it... I recorded with an ADC with integrated Pre-amplifier on which they are installed an array of AD8620's, these inject too much violence and obscure the detail.
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steffensen



Joined: Jul 11, 2012
Posts: 95
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

furio wrote:

Hi steffensen,
I've noticed a marked improvement of the operation, rather than a difference in tone = the instrument results is more convincing to me.
In theory, the transistors 2N3904 and 2N3906 should be tended to more audiophile sound... I guess it's just a matter of thermal coupling and perhaps a work of this kind one might approach a similar result (photo).

I tried to make two adapter's with the recommended transistors & better tempcos = after comparing, the VCO with 2N3904/2N3906 expo converter seems to malfunction.
For years I used the dual version PCB by Andy and it was my favorite module... perhaps I would install two BC847BPN's also on them.
The tone changes a lot more by replacing the 2N5910 with a 2N3906... however, for a while I try the VCO with the 2N3906 instead the 2N5910, but I have no intention to replace the 2N5459's.
It disturbs me a lot more to run a celluar phone in standby mode in the studio for the damages arising in tone and operation, than the BC847BPN.
In any case, I like the Andy's idea to separate the dual VCO in individual modules. The single VCO improves drastically in sound and operation.


Interesting.
I didnt do anything particular to my 2N3904/2N3906 expo converter, it just works great. I use a 1.87 tempco, which might have something to do with that tho.
What do you mean by operation? Is FM behaving better? Or something else?
I havent found a 2N5910 yet, but i think i have some on the way now (just hope they arent fakes).
I did however (for the 2N5910) try comparing the 2N3906 with the later used by ARP: 2N4125.
Made no difference in sound at all, but perhaps the latter one dont get heated as much. I didnt measure.
Using BF245 instead of the 2N5459 however made a difference for sure. (more in to the Roland realm i described above)

As said, mine is working great BUT the locking/syncing of the VCO's is disturbing. Its one thing if i have chose to use Sync, but if i havent i dont want it to happen. And there is no way to stop the Ground joining up thru the panel obviously.
This should be a problem with the original Odyssey as well imo, wonder how they solved that.. if this is the answer to stop the locking.

I cant be the only one experiencing this and wanting to find a solution?
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furio



Joined: Dec 25, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I too believed for three years that my dual VCO was great... Though now it just works better... by giving a close ear I would say that the auto-sync could still be improved (I do not know how I should proceed to investigate technically and/or whether I have the suitable lab equipment... I only have a pocket oscilloscope with which I can almost see nothing).
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noiselector



Joined: Mar 30, 2013
Posts: 21
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think you could use Nomex paper for insulating the panel from the ground board trace as an easy solution ( or you can use Furio's acrylic panels).
Thanks a lot for sharing all your experiments with this VCO board, this threat is getting hot.
Wink
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