electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Rob Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
An Analog Synthesizer for the 21st Century
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 7 of 8 [178 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next
Author Message
State Machine
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 2747
Location: New York
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The drawing MATRIX 61.GIF in my earlier post shows
the pinut and physical pin locations.
This should make it very clear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
The drawing MATRIX 61.GIF in my earlier post shows
the pinut and physical pin locations.
This should make it very clear.


the diagram to the right that shows which is pin 1 doesn't really tell me which way i should look at it, and if i turn it upside down, it's the same way, so i'm not exactly sure which pin is 1 and which pin is 16 coming from the keyboard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
State Machine
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 2747
Location: New York
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
the diagram to the right that shows which is pin 1 doesn't really tell me which way i should look at it, and if i turn it upside down, it's the same way, so i'm not exactly sure which pin is 1 and which pin is 16 coming from the keyboard


The mating connector is keyed and only goes on one way. Push the male pin mating connector onto the keyboards connector. The side of the connector with the red wire is pin 1.

Bill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
Quote:
the diagram to the right that shows which is pin 1 doesn't really tell me which way i should look at it, and if i turn it upside down, it's the same way, so i'm not exactly sure which pin is 1 and which pin is 16 coming from the keyboard


The mating connector is keyed and only goes on one way. Push the male pin mating connector onto the keyboards connector. The side of the connector with the red wire is pin 1.

Bill


so my red wire is pin 1?

i'm just concerned because either end of the connector can be connected and thus, the red wire can switch between being pin 1 and pin 16, depending on which end of the connecter you attach

is it a rule of thumb to have the red/leading wire to the left when the keyboard is facing straight up?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if i hardwire/solder the ikc's gate and trigger outputs directly to the jacks behind the panel according to thomas' schematic, what will happen when signals are plugged into the jack from the front panel?

i'd rather than build a panel for it and use up more hardware/jacks/patch cables.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds to me like your ribbon cable isn't wired right, if the red wire is in a different position on each end.

What you ask about the jacks is exactly what a switching jack is for.you wire the switch part to the "normal" connections, but then plugging a jack in will substitute that signal for what was "normally" there. This is called "normalling", funny enough Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh okay.. so the way it's wired in thomas' schematic already allows for that?

as in, the gate/trigger signals from the ikc would be connected to the middle lugs for their respective inputs per module?

for example, the gate output from the ikc would be connected to the +15v of the ADSR gate input (and the trigger out of the ikc to the middle lug of the trigger input on the ADSR as well?)

and for normally open, would the 1V/Oct input from the ikc be connected to the middle lug or to the 100kohm lug?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please stop calling them normally open, it just confuses me and isn't correct. Smile


But let's go over the ADSR.

The reason the Gate on the ADSR is normalled to 15V is so that you can use it with JUST a trigger input, essentially as an AD rather than an ADSR (you also would need to set the Sustain to 0V for that to work the way you'd expect).

IF you normal it to the keyboard controller instead, that's a valid choice, but it means that functionality is gone, and you should do it knowing that is what you want.



One thing I am not clear on is whether or not you intend to wire things up the way you see in the "patchover scheme" at the end. That essentially would give you a semi-modular synth. As you can see there, yes, the gate from the keyboard controller would be normalled to the gate in of both the ADSR and the LFO, along with the trigger going to the respective trigger inputs on those. You lose the AD capability (unless you find a 15V source you can patch in when you want that), but you end up with a unit that can be played without patch cords required.

I suspect this is actually what you were talking about doing, but if you can clarify it will help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
Please stop calling them normally open, it just confuses me and isn't correct. Smile


But let's go over the ADSR.

The reason the Gate on the ADSR is normalled to 15V is so that you can use it with JUST a trigger input, essentially as an AD rather than an ADSR (you also would need to set the Sustain to 0V for that to work the way you'd expect).

IF you normal it to the keyboard controller instead, that's a valid choice, but it means that functionality is gone, and you should do it knowing that is what you want.



One thing I am not clear on is whether or not you intend to wire things up the way you see in the "patchover scheme" at the end. That essentially would give you a semi-modular synth. As you can see there, yes, the gate from the keyboard controller would be normalled to the gate in of both the ADSR and the LFO, along with the trigger going to the respective trigger inputs on those. You lose the AD capability (unless you find a 15V source you can patch in when you want that), but you end up with a unit that can be played without patch cords required.

I suspect this is actually what you were talking about doing, but if you can clarify it will help.


i call it that because that's what it's referred to in thomas' schematic.

all i need clarified is where am i soldering the trigger/gate signals from the ikc to the modules specifically. it's not clear to me how exactly to "normalize" my modules but what i'd like rather are specifics on what needs to be attached to what.

you can say normalize a million times and i still won't know what to attach to what lol.

are you saying that all the "normal" (which i think means the center lug for the jacks) should be replaced by the ikc signals to the corresponding inputs? what if for example i keep the +15 on the middle lug as well as attach the gate output from the ikc?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I guess the little "n.o." indications in the part listings had escaped me.... So I won't say it's incorrect then Smile


Where ever you see the arrow pointing to the tip signal of a jack, that is known as a "normal" connection; also that is a "normally closed" switching jack. For example in the ADSR, the +15V on the Gate input is the normal connection, and it is connected to the switch lug (the middle one) of the normally *closed* jack.

If you have a jack that's listed in the schematic as "normally open", aka a standard jack, but you want it to normally connect to some signal from the keyboard (let's say you want 1V/Oct out from the keyboard to be connected to the 1V/Oct inputs on the VCOs), you can substitute a normally closed jack there, and wire that input to the switch lug. You CANNOT connect that signal to a standard jack, because basically you'd be eliminating the jack. With a standard jack, it's expecting you will use patch cables to connect some signal in, and that's the only way.



Overall, I can't tell you "what goes where" because I don't know what you're trying to accomplish exactly. That's part of why the intro says "not a book of step-by-step instructions" Very Happy. And that's why I asked if you were trying to duplicate the patchover scheme from the very end of the book; if that's the case, I *CAN* tell you what goes where to match that.



If we limit ourselves strictly to the ADSR, and you don't care about being able to use the ADSR as an AD instead, then it's entirely reasonable to wire the gate out from the keyboard controller to the "normal" or "switch lug" of that jack INSTEAD of the +15V.

You can't attach both. You will either have to 1) wire it to 15V and plug the keyboard in with a patch cable when you want to use the keyboard, OR 2) wire it to the keyboard, and connect 15V to the jack with a patch cable when you want to use AD mode.

If you try to attach both you WILL PROBABLY FRY SOMETHING, and my bet would be it's going to be the keyboard controller. I haven't looked at it's schematic, maybe it has an output resistor that would protect it, but it would still be a really bad idea, and it certainly won't work correctly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BTW the trigger in on the ADSR is likely to be more tricky than the gate; it is also normalled to something internal to the ADSR, so that it will work as an ASR as well, with just a gate input.

I believe you could replace that with the trigger signal from the IKC, but just like the 15V, you cannot have both points connected at the same time (IKC and the wiring as shown in the schematic) if you want things to work correctly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elmegil wrote:
If you have a jack that's listed in the schematic as "normally open", aka a standard jack, but you want it to normally connect to some signal from the keyboard (let's say you want 1V/Oct out from the keyboard to be connected to the 1V/Oct inputs on the VCOs), you can substitute a normally closed jack there, and wire that input to the switch lug. You CANNOT connect that signal to a standard jack, because basically you'd be eliminating the jack. With a standard jack, it's expecting you will use patch cables to connect some signal in, and that's the only way.


this is perfect!

thank you man! time to make some changes.. haha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

is it just me or was there no reason for the 5V output in the power supply?

i checked all the pages, and even the ikc doesn't require 5v input.. thus, what's the point of the 5v output in thomas' schem?

is it just because it's a popular voltage for powering microcontrollers and other miscellaneous stuff?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just turned it on. smoke is being emitted from one of the rectifier diodes (it also lights up) in the power supply.

could this just be a bad diode?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Highly unlikely.


I hope you turned JUST the power supply on, right? Nothing connected to it for load?

First time on, you should do one piece at a time, otherwise it will be impossible to troubleshoot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i had a simple patch hooked up.. not sure what i'm gonna do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tear the patch down, disconnect power from the separate parts, verify you have power out correctly or not. If not, sounds like at a minimum you'll need to replace that diode, but then double check the board for any shorts etc.

Once you have the power working all by itself, connect one of the other boards, lather rinse repeat until you have enough modules hooked up to actually make noise, test the noises, and move along....

Yah, sorry, very generic. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice thinking dude! very inspirational
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so i resoldered the power supply on a completely new set of pads, and the same diode is burning up. i even replaced all 4 of the diodes in the full wave rectifier but D2 and D4 keep burning up for some reason

edit: there must be something wrong with this node because everything else around it seems to do fine (all capacitors are still chargeable and D1 and D3 can be measured with the diodemeter).

the 36vct is outputting +/-10V going into the full-wave rectifier's top and btm nodes (20V)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What outputs are you seeing on the regulated side?

My thought is you may see +15 but you very likely are not seeing -15. So check that branch of the circuit for shorts, including a bad regulator or a mis-placed diode (D7 & D8 oriented correctly??)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i checked the circuit and i found one short (solder loop) and i reconnected my circuit, only to run into the same problem. i admit i haven't check my voltage regulator, only because i don't have a power supply to supply -20 volts to it, unless i can put in 20 volts AC (which i assume you cannot do)

is there another way to test them? could it be any other reason?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Swap it out. Testing is only reasonable if you have a test rig, and you don't (and I don't, and I doubt Bill does, at least for regulators Smile )

It sounds like you validated the caps are working, if your diodes are all right, that's the only other component likely to be at issue.

I would consider simply cutting it out and seeing if the other two supplies behaved before proceeding further down the theory that the negative branch was to blame, but that does seem the most likely cause at this moment, from the information you've provided.

Edit: more useful (because the diodes and caps are still there even if you cut out the regulator) would be to essentially cut the line from D2 & D4 to the rest of the circuit. I don't know how practical that is with your boards though....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chieffrancis



Joined: Feb 07, 2013
Posts: 88
Location: california, united states

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks a lot.

do you know if there's any purpose for the 5v output for thomas' schematics?

i don't see any schematics that use it (and the ikc doesn't require it either) so i might use a pre-built +/-15 v power supply should the new regulator not be the answer to my problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elmegil



Joined: Mar 20, 2012
Posts: 1504
Location: Chicago
Audio files: 14

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I assume it was so you had it if you had something like a MIDI->CV project you had to power with 5V. You're right though, none of the listed schematics use 5V, so a prebuilt supply may be the best thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
State Machine
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 2747
Location: New York
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

poof !!

what happened ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 7 of 8 [178 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use